Do the Change with Bhavya Joshi, MA

Part 1: Do the Change with Bhavya Joshi

Tyra Parrish: Hi everyone welcome to Do the Change podcast where we're challenging and reimagining OEHS, and so in this podcast we are focusing on upcoming and current and present leaders in their field and how they got to where they are today with a special focus on the field of Occupational Health and Environmental Health Sciences. But we do focus on topics outside of that because they do overlap and intersection a lot of ways. So we're going to be talking about the hills and valleys of their journeys and also get some insight into some non-traditional paths into the field. So my name is Tyra Parrish and I'm a recent graduate here from the MPH program at Cal and our guest for this episode is Bhavya Joshi. Did I say your last name correctly?

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: Perfect, okay I was like I know how to say it. Okay, so Bhavya is a Doctor of Public Health candidate at the school of Public Health at Berkeley, she hailed from India and as a global Public Health fellow, senator for African studies fellow, and alumni of the Bixby Center Summer Fellowship class of 2022, and she's also a human rights fellow class of 2022. Her research focuses on understanding the reproductive needs of marginalized populations in low and middle income countries in times of crisis. She'll be conducting her doctoral research with refugee and internally displaced women and girls in South Sudan. In 2022 she worked with Ukrainian women refugees in Croatia to understand their unmet reproductive health needs. As a woman, human rights advocate, and educator, Bhavya supports women's rights defenders from across the globe to build their capacity to use international human rights mechanisms for advocacy and activism at National, Regional, and International levels. Before starting this program Bhavya managed, implemented, and evaluated Public Health projects in South Asia for more than six years. Her research has been in sexual and reproductive health, wash, waste management, market facilitation, health finance, health systems, economic empowerment of women, and using user-centered design to improve health outcomes in marginalized communities. Bhavya received her MA in international law and human rights from the United Nations Mandated University for Peace in Costa Rica and her bachelor's is in political science from Delhi University in India. Did I say that right?

Bhavya Joshi: You did.

Tyra Parrish: Awesome, okay, just checking in. So we are so happy to have you on this podcast. I'm super excited because I know you have a lot of amazing things to share.

Bhavya Joshi: Thank you for having me today.

Tyra Parrish: Of course we're so, I'm very happy to have you here and so we're going to start with the check in question first which is: if you could share a surprising or unexpected moment that made you smile this week.

Bhavya Joshi: Wow, there were a few to be honest because-

Tyra Parrish: Okay, share them all.

Bhavya Joshi: I was actually on a vacation

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: All of last week, and I did have some very special moments, some of them also surprising and unexpected. But the one I'll mention was about an experience that I had doing snorkeling and this was the first time I was doing it in the second largest coral reef of the world and you know how we speak about the corals being damaged and how you know, the- our actions are kind of impacting you know their health.

Tyra Parrish: Mhm.

Bhavya Joshi: It was very interesting to see that live and so that was the more like a surprising kind of element where I did not expect it to be that impacted despite hearing so much about that discourse, right? But it was definitely something that made me, the whole experience was something that made me smile because just kind of experiencing that beauty was, I think it was one of my best trips and my most favorite trips of my life. But it was, it was surprising and glaring also. It was a very interesting experience because I kind of came out of that trip feeling a lot of things but also big component of surprise and disheartenment in some ways.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, yeah and I think that's that's such a, that's such an awesome experience to have in the sense of like what you were sharing about how you're seeing, you said it was like the second largest like coral reef ever and then also the other side which is just like okay the reality of like it is what people are saying and if not probably like more stark when you're like looking at it.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: But that's, that's really cool that you got to see it, yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, it was a brilliant experience but, but yeah, came with its own, yeah it's own pluses and minuses I would say.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah. I think, I'm think- oh something for me that made me smile this week was I've started shadowing a doctor that's a whole other separate thing, but shadowing in Pediatrics and like really loving it and I think seeing from like, from a non-patient side now of trying thinking about where like what specialty kind of aligns with me and like being able to Shadow this really amazing pediatrician Dr. Perlman. I love her and I'm so glad I was recommended to her. But seeing what type of doctor she is, how she shows up in the space, and also seeing she has bears around her, what's it called? I think, I don't know if it's called a stethoscope, it might be. The thing that doctors wear around their neck.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah it is.

Tyra Parrish: I shouldn't- yeah.

Bhavya Joshi, MA: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: She has little bears around it and for the longest time-

Bhavya Joshi: That's awesome.

Tyra Parrish: Right I was like oh it's cute, for a moment I was like why? Like does it help with your neck? Like I thought it was like a comfort thing, so it's not hurting her neck. No, she got it so that when she's trying to listen to a kid's heartbeat they have something to focus on, for those kids who like are kind of antsy a little bit.

Bhavya Joshi: That is so sweet.

Tyra Parrish: And it made me smile to see like a little kid, oh like the bear and she's like great, let's read all your vitals and stuff.

Bhavya Joshi: That's adorable.

Tyra Parrish: Right? And it made me smile because it's just, being a pediatrician requires a lot of patience, a lot of kindness, a lot of like- she's so good at like empowering like the kids because it's like from age zero to when they're I think 22. But seeing how she empowers them in their health is super amazing and it just made me smile to be, to be like oh, if I can be at least half of what she is, it'll be good.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, definitely an inspiration, definitely an inspiration but how thoughtful of her to do that?

Tyra Parrish: Right?

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, especially with the population that you know would be I mean just the age that they're at these experiences shape so much of what they become in the future and I think that that's very thoughtful of her.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah yeah so that's-

Bhavya Joshi: Thanks for sharing that experience.

Tyra Parrish: Aww thanks. I appreciate that. So speaking of just pediatrics and health can you walk us through how you got into public health and specifically kind of the field of reproductive health, how did you like- what was that journey?

Bhavya Joshi: For sure. I'll take a few minutes on this one, it's been a while.

Tyra Parrish: Yes, please.

Bhavya Joshi: I think my interest in this topic comes a lot from my experiences of living in India as a woman. India has many things it's a country of rich culture, you know colorful textiles, spicy curries and so much more but it is also a country of frigid patriarchal structures and gender inequalities where I unfortunately faced the plight of toxic masculinity and misogyny all through my childhood and adolescence. And due to the cultural context that I was growing up in I was deprived of any preparation for puberty, particularly menstruation and that was a big life-changing event for me in my life obviously as an adolescent, or of any bodily knowledge that I should have had as an adolescent who was experiencing puberty. So once I hit puberty I was actually swimming pretty deep into these stereotypes and taboos that are associated with menstruation or women's reproductive health which snowballed very quickly into me being exposed to abuse, harassment, and toxic relationships during most of my adolescence. And to be honest Tyra, under these circumstances if one is not determined and focused on what they want it is a very swift, quick and swift barrier into the social and cultural weights and so I always thought if in my privilege bubble I could undergo these experiences, I shudder to think about thousands and millions of women and girls who live in settings who do not have the resources to either access reproductive health services or you know express their autonomy or you know decision-making authorities to access these services or just kind of be aware and knowledgeable about them. And so I think my journey into reproductive health started pretty early on. And I was interested from the very early on like I said to understand especially the challenges that women face in marginalized communities and what else and how does some of these gender inequalities that exist very inherently in a culture like India how do they then impact woman's reproductive health journey across her reproductive health cycle. Right?

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And so I pursued my Masters in international and human rights which might seem a very different subject but honestly health is a human right.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And when I did get training into human rights I automatically took the route of women's human rights and the movement related to that and then from there into sexual reproductive health and rights. So it was actually a very organic path that I took up Masters and then I went ahead and did another academic training in peace and conflict studies and how that kind of almost impact women's reproductive health like-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: In different spaces and that again organically if I amalgamated both my academic trainings it kind of created the topic that I'm focusing and working on for my doctoral research. I also in the process obviously worked in India and South Asia region for about six years or so and so I think all of that together came into creating my doctoral research proposal and the space that I'm working in which is women's reproductive health access for primarily refugee and internally displaced women being in conflict and crisis settings. And really the heart of my work is reproductive empowerment, promoting women's rights, reaching the furthest behind first.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And addressing health inequalities in those communities.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah and I think I really love that, that last part you said where you're like kind of reaching to those that are furthest in the back and helping them because I think that there's like a misconception of like you help the ones who are kind of the fore front facing ones and that helps everybody but really there's been a lot more studies and conversations about if you help those who are the furthest back or the ones who are like quote unquote the furthest like at the bottom for lack of better phrasing that when you help those folks you help everybody.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: And yeah and I really love that like your focus is like no I'm not going for quote-unquote low-hanging fruit I'm going for the fruit all the way at the top because that person or those groups matter as well.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly. And like you rightly said unfortunately because it's not the low-hanging fruit those populations are automatic marginalized even further by the system itself because we don't reach them.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly.

Bhavya Joshi: Because they are the most difficult to reach.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: We have so many barriers and challenges in even accessing those propagations-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: That a lot of times because of resource constraints or you know because of decision making in these higher levels or you know by even researchers in global health-

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: They opt for a more easier path-

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: For a lack of better word and a more feasible path if I may say so, because yeah it is extremely challenging a lot of times to reach these populations and a lot of these forcibly displaced populations in particular are very dynamic.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: They are not right at one place so it's tough to kind of follow them and work with them and with respect to reaching the further behind it's actually a human rights principle which is a principle on which the sustainable development goals are also grounded. The purpose of sustainable development goals from a human rights lens is to reach the furthest behind first and I think that because of my human rights training that that is very central and key to my work as well.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, and I think I wanted to follow up of because of your background in human rights and your background also in like you talked about like peace and conflict like resolution or just that kind of that topic what drew you specifically to Berkeley public health for that like doctoral kind of now like addition on top of like what you've already like got training and if that makes sense like what about Berkeley Public Health was like this is the extra thing that I need?

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, I mean I do think the faculty is great and I found an advisor who was in alignment with my interests and the research that I wanted to do and I needed that. I didn't want my doctoral journey to be dictated by a research that I am not passionate about.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly.

Bhavya Joshi: I got that space at Berkeley Public Health even in my initial conversations with faculty members at Berkeley because even before I applied right I started contacting faculty members they got in touch they were invested they were supportive of the topic and there was almost a component of individuality in this research where I was carving my own path in a way and I was getting the support that I needed when I needed it.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And having at the age that I'm at with the experience and you know the direction that I want my future to take, I felt that is the sort of dynamics I needed with that.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And I found that so I think that was extremely key, the second important I think a component for my decision making was the formation and the structure of the cohort itself.

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: I'll be very honest some of the most prestigious schools their DRPH cohorts look very similar to one another with a very similar background and profile it's almost like they've fit a certain template and they are in. Like I think Berkeley Public Health especially the DRPH cohort it was diverse, it was representative of various communities, of various identities and it had people from across the globe and I felt that as a doctoral student I fit better in a cohort like that. I will learn better, I will be exposed to more experiences and learnings in a space and a cohort like that.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And that was the component of my decision making to get at Berkeley Public Health as well and finally to be very honest there needs to be a practical part to it. I did have a good funding offer from Berkeley public health and in addition to that I could also see a visible road map to seek additional financial support and find opportunities to sustain myself for a period of three to four years which this program takes.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Before it is wrapped up and that visible roadmap was probably not as visible in several other institutions that I applied at and so I think these were three key key components for me to to make that decision to come here.

Tyra Parrish: Awesome and I think if I want to kind of step out a little bit of like so in general what what pushed you to get just like a doctorate in public health so before you chose Berkeley what was kind of the thought process of like okay I'm going to pursue a doctorate in public health and then if you can also, you kind of touched on it but also the research that you're doing in South Sudan I believe that's what you shared.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, sure so I think the first part is that DRPH is a professional track doctoral program.

Tyra Parrish: I see.

Bhavya Joshi: It's not an academic track like the like a PhD right? And typically people who come into these programs come with prior work experience and so it almost creates a space of like-minded people who have already made impact in the world or in the spaces that they come from in various ways, right? And I think that is what that is one of the things that stood out for me for a DRPH program versus a PhD, right? The second thing is DRPH is an interdisciplinary program right and Berkeley somehow nurtures that interdisciplinary nature of it in a very beautiful way. The opportunities that come with it being interdisciplinary is beyond the scope of School of Public Health. You can collaborate with faculty members with centers from across the campus and as you just mentioned while you were introducing I've been affiliated with the human rights center with the center for African studies for centers that are also placed outside the school and I I have advisors on my committee who are not from the School of Public Health and it kind of was fitting very naturally with my academic background which is also very interdisciplinary but very still in tandem, right? It's not it's not all very different from each other. We kind of these fields kind of coexist and I think that is the beauty of Public Health in general as a field that it is very interdisciplinary and so to do a doctoral program that facilitates that interdisciplinary nature was very important for me and it was very crucial for me in my next you know academic steps that I was taking. And probably related to this because I had a background in human rights and law, peace and conflict studies, gender studies, etc. I was working actually in sexually reproductive health for most most of my career, most of my professional life with this interdisciplinary academic training also. So at the end I kind of wanted to end with an academic training that is more rooted in public health so that I also get the academic exposure that public health professionals get.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: When they get public health degrees or a program so I think for me it was almost again very organic in the sense that it was, it was a marriage made in heaven kind of a situation where I was like oh all these fields kind of work really well I understand how my work fits in all these three fields and it amalgamates these three fields together in some ways and doing a doctor of Public Health at this juncture in my life in my career would make complete sense and I think that's what made me pursue a DRPH. And this specific research that I'll be conducting to be honest it's a process you kind of-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: With that topic as a part of the program and that's again like I said the beauty of it that you go through that process and you learn in that process. For me there was some like I said natural connection with my previous academic backgrounds but also I've been in Reproductive Health all my life I've not worked in many other spaces, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And so it was almost, when I spoke to my advisor we almost knew this is the sort of research we're doing. We mostly honed in on it and defined it better once I got into the program.

Tyra Parrish: Gotcha, okay. And I think if you can, just for folks who don't know the difference between refugees and internally displaced people do you mind just defining it because I feel that sometimes they get kind of like conflated and like no they're interchangeable and they're really not.

Bhavya Joshi: Absolutely, no they're not. You're right exactly. So so both populations are defined as forcibly displaced.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Meaning people who've been forcibly displaced from their homes. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugee, UNHCR, which is the key UN body that kind of focuses on these populations and work around them defines refugee as people who've been displaced from their homes but they leave their homes and countries and cross borders into another country.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: So to get a refugee status you have to cross border into another country. Internally displaced persons are also forcibly displaced because of a crisis or a conflict or any of that but stay within the borders of their country. That's why they are internally displaced and so externally displaced almost becomes like a refugee so that's the difference between the two.

Tyra Parrish: Right, okay thank you so much for defining that because I think that's it's very important it's a, I wouldn't say it's a, it's a important distinction when you're using these words and for folks who are interested in doing human rights work those distinctions are important.

Bhavya Joshi: Absolutely, and thank you for pointing it out because a lot of times when we're working in the field we use these jargons almost as if everyone gets it. And I appreciate you kind of asking me to break it down, please continue to do that if I-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: I use any jargons that, that needs to be broken down further.

Tyra Parrish: No, it's okay and honestly you're the best person to ask, right? Because this is work that you're doing so I was like actually let's just ask, you're an expert let's ask-

Bhavya Joshi: Thank you.

Tyra Parrish: Like what, yeah. Yeah so before moving on to the next kind of topic shift in your journey to Public Health and into reproductive health and into the field of reproductive health were there any mentors or role models who kind of pushed you there and or kept you there in those moments where you're like oh my gosh like what is going on? Yeah so how did they contribute to kind of your growth and development in the field.

Bhavya Joshi: No that's a great question, thank you for kind of adding it into this conversation. I genuinely from the bottom of my heart think that I am a product of support and sacrifices of many people in my life, it is really difficult to say that. I'm going to name like top three, right? Because I know what has gone into the process for me to get here.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And I'm not even any big short or anything, nothing, right? But still even for me to get here it's been a journey and it has been an input from many many many people. Having said that my role model is definitely my mother. She has been that rock for me like you just said, in every situation I have cried, I have howled, I have failed, I have succeeded, I have had you know good moments, happy moments and through all of it she's been my rock. And in the recent years, my husband as well.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: But, but I think while I was growing up and I started to work on this topic, like I said it's a very taboo subject, right? And I was coming from a family or from from a background where women's rights were not the way, were not the same as they are today, right? And from that era, right? And so I had restrictions like be back home before dark, you know report every time you leave, and I understand a lot of that comes from a safety perspective from a parent as well but I think it was my mom who said, who kind of started pushing some of those boundaries with me because I was obviously rebelling, right? But if there's no one to listen to that rebellion, accept that change, that rebellion is of no use and I think it was my mom who started doing that first. She's always been a working woman, she's a working woman till date. She told me the importance of economic empowerment she told me the importance of education, she got married really early on, she finished her graduation while she was pregnant with me and I'm a second child. And so she's she realized that if I do not educate myself to the extent that I want to, there will be something that I'm missing out on in my life and so she kind of imbibed that importance of education in my life to an extent that I was the first person in my family, extended family even who left my country as a woman to go abroad and study and yeah. And she, I remember the first time I proposed this idea my dad was like no, this is not happening and I got a lot of pushback. But it was her dream along with mine that made it happen and I remember how that year we turned so many people in support of fulfilling this dream and from there there's not not been any like, we've not looked back, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: But I think it was those crucial moments where, where her support and her vision helped me turn the tables that I could not have done at my own, on my own basically and in that journey I think I would like to name a mentor her name is Alda Facio. She's a very renowned feminist jurist and human rights activist, advocate from Central America, she's served in the United Nations human rights systems in several positions, she has drafted many many documents with pertaining to women's rights and advancing them, and she was one of my mentors in my master's program. So imagine a 22 year old girl in the other part of the world who's not stepped out of her home in darkness until now, literally and she's living in another part of the world and there is this woman who comes and says let's make what you want to achieve happen. And it's that date into date that I work with her and we work closely on advancing women human rights for women across the globe and advocating for their rights at the United Nations human rights systems. So while there are many people and I do acknowledge their support throughout my journey I think these two people will always stand out for me because they were there with me when no one else was.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, and I think I want to pause and just say thank you for sharing that because that is I felt like I was hearing someone tell my story, because that's who my mom is to me where it's like-

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: And also I totally relate with it, it's very hard just to name top three or top five because you realize it's those, it could even be those people who are really kind to you or someone in passing who just told you hey have you heard blah blah blah topic and you never saw them again. That's someone in your journey, you know so I just want to pause and uplift that because that's very real where, you're- I'm gonna start to get teary-eyed but it is, it's like you are the reflection of 30 or something people who decided to show up for you in a really important moment and for people where it's like your parents or like your mom when you shared, where that's my relationship with my mom or if my mom wasn't telling me like no you're right like the way you're feeling is right or encouraging me to push when I was like I'm not sure if this is something I should push on, my mom was like no you can do it and here's why. That's really amazing and it's really amazing to hear how your mom showed up for you and also pushed you and even the fact that she was supporting a dream of yours and giving you that space too, if you did want to do it she's like I'm here for you but if she doesn't want to do it she's still here for you and that's sometimes all a person needs.

Bhavya Joshi: Absolutely.

Tyra Parrish: And I just shout out to your mom I've never met her but she sounds like an amazing woman.

Bhavya Joshi: No, she is and shout out to your moms and all the moms right because they made sacrifices in their generations as well and they do recognize that they need to support us to kind of not let that history repeat itself for this generation.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly that.

Bhavya Joshi: So, and it's not been easy for them they've kind of stood up against their loved ones as well for us, right?

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And I think it takes a lot of strength and courage for everyone to show up for someone else and they did and many other people did and I can only be thankful and grateful for them in our lives.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly.

Bhavya Joshi: And the impact that they've made subtly for our generation.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly. And so with that I'm gonna do a topic shift kind of because we've actually been talking about human rights a lot so this isn't really that big of a topic shift but now specifically can you talk about this human rights fellowship that you've mentioned. For those who may not know first time hearing it and if you can talk about, what just overview of what the fellowship is about and what that like process is like applying, interviewing, and getting that fellowship.

Bhavya Joshi: Sure, so the human rights fellowship is offered by the human rights center at Berkeley which is just by the law school, it's a very sweet archaic kind of building, rustic and lovely and it's a great team there. But primarily Alexi is someone who works on the fellowship part of it and with respect to you know just the process of the applications, etc., so it's offered every year and the stipend for the year that I got it, received it, was about eight thousand dollars. I know it it changed, it was different for a year before me it's probably the same for this year but yeah it kind of changes depending on the funding. But the applications are typically due around February and you are expected to provide I think three letter of recommendations. You're, you are supposed to have a partnership with an organization that works on a human rights issue that you are interested in and that you're proposing to work with in the summer. So you need to have that collaboration almost set so if you are proposing to start working like May or whatever then in February you should have that letter of support. So it I think one of the key things is that you've got to start working early for this Fellowship and like I said the applications are due in February but they do some information sessions in sometimes in December but typically in January and early February as well and I think those are very helpful to seek more information more detailed information, etc. I personally found out about it because it was one of the centers I was actually interested in, so I knew about it even before I got into Berkeley. I looked it up and I saw their work and they do some incredible work, so it was a center I was always interested in but I also knew of a few people who were fellows before me and so I also heard the first-hand experience of going through this Fellowship, etc., so I think that kind of strengthened my resolve of kind of applying and trying to get this Fellowship. Once you receive it the process, so- okay so let's, so this is pre-deadline so say pre like Feb, this is the sort of thing, there's info sessions deadlines typically in Feb you want to have LOR's, you're going to have a lot of support you have to have a whole SOP, you have to focus on the human rights element, so like I said health is a human right for all those people who are working in public health can place their work from a human rights, Health as a human rights lens.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And you do have to show some human rights sense-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: In your application, it cannot be a very public health heavy application you have to say how you are kind of approaching it from a rights based lens.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: So you got to bring that out in your application. That's one of the tips I would give. In my case I submitted the application we did have a few calls back and forth they were not necessarily interview calls they were more calls to elaborate further on the sort of work that I would do, how I can switch it. The Ukraine crisis had just started, so the application deadline I remember was 20th February and 24th February is when the Ukraine crisis kind of started and so I was proposing to work with this organization in Croatia it's called Ruda and we were, we had another plan and but when this crisis happened a lot of people started moving into countries in Eastern Europe and Central Europe, etc., and so there was a refugee population that was also coming into Croatia and a lot of- and the government wanted some of these organizations to divert some of their resources in supporting these refugees.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: So my partner organization decided to do that and so I sent them an email saying that while I submitted my application with this, you know with this proposal there might be a change given you know the change in the situation in the region, etc., and so we had a few calls and conversations around that and how that shift is going to happen in the work that I was proposing, yeah. And then I got in, after I got in there's typically one pre-meeting that happens which is like almost like an introductory meeting where you introduce all fellows, I introduced, they go through some of you know the protocols and yeah and you kind of talk a little bit about the summer work you're doing. Then you are on the field, you basically work wherever in the world you're working. You come back, there's a meeting post field work, which is where you know people typically kind of report back in some way, share their experiences and then the final part of the- I mean there's obviously a lot of feedback, evaluation pieces that goes in-

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: When you're on field you are supposed to you know submit some paperwork, reports, etc., of like how your fieldwork is going, all of that. And then it ends with a TED Talk style presentation which is kind of almost like a conference that is held and all the fellows are presenters and so they divide panels throughout the day and then there are about three to four presenters, so you do your own individual presentation and then you sit on the panel and have a Q and A with the audience. And so that post field work meeting basically starts preparing you for that TED Talk. And it ends with a TED Talk and finally with some evaluations and feedback and stuff but that's how the year kind of looks like with respect to the fellowship. Yeah and I think that's, if there's anything else you want to ask specifically but I think that's broadly how the process-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: Hi guys, this is Tyra Parrish your host for this episode and we have reached the end of part one of this conversation with this amazing speaker don't click out yet because part two of this conversation has already been posted, so go ahead and click over to the next page and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and Spotify page.

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Part 2: Do the Change with Bhavya Joshi

Tyra Parrish: Hey y'all welcome to part two of our conversation with our amazing speaker on the Do the Change podcast, we're going to hop right back into the conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify page, and follow us on Instagram @dothechangepodcast.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, I actually, I actually wanted to dive more into the specific work you did when you were a fellow with the human rights Fellowship, you kind of touched on it, the Croatia and like how you- the original idea that you had started with kind of shifted more to focusing on the Ukrainian crisis that happened literally a couple days after the deadline.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: Right, yes if you want to talk about that just a little bit more how what- like what you talked about what it shifted to, but also how is that like just, like being in that space and working with them while that was actively kind of happening.

Bhavya Joshi: So, again I mean one thing if you were in global health is, is that no matter how much preparation you will do you or you end up doing, you will still have some changes on the field-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: When you get on the field, because when you expose yourself to a certain context you are exposed to experiences and situations that you did not anticipate when you were sitting somewhere else in planning this field visit, right?

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: So that's pretty much what happened with me over and over again during this, during the summer.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: As you can see, but I think it - part of my work which I had committed to the center was to focus on understanding what is the unmet reproductive health needs in this population.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And so I spoke to some of the health workers some of members of Frontline workers and members of humanitarian organizations that were actively participating. I spoke to some political personnels, journalists, all of that and I did visit some of these Refugee centers as well to just see the sort of services that are being provided, how are they being supportive, and what specific to reproductive Health has been, is being delivered in these spaces. So that was one big component but like I said things have all been changed when you're on field so one of the things that happened when I was on field was a case of a woman called Mirela Cavadja who was denied legal abortion in Croatia.

Tyra Parrish: Wow.

Bhavya Joshi: So women are allowed to abort up to 12 weeks, this woman was in 24th week when she was, when she realized that she needed to abort her baby and- or the fetus, sorry. And I think at week 20 she had a few appointments and you know the fetus was unfortunately not in a condition to survive and so she asked for abortion but she was denied and you know at that point in your pregnancy you were at a crucial stage and you don't have a lot of time for decision making, etc., like you've got to be quick, right? And so she decided she wanted to and it's legal abortion because you are allowed abortion post 20- post 12 weeks if you are, if there are circumstances like this in-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: In her case a fetus malformation. And so she was denied and then she eventually in week 29 had to go to a neighboring country called Slovenia and get her abortion there because all the doctors in Croatia denied her legal abortion. And so, because that's because of the government-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And you know it kind of supports, it doesn't support let's say, reproductive health as much, and so what it did, it created an uproar there were, Roda was actively involved in supporting her case, it became a national issue there were rallies, that were happening in nine cities over 40, 000 people participated in those rallies across these cities in in Croatia. There were political debates happening at Primetime News hours on this topic and there was so much more happening. And I had some experience of working in the human rights system and so while I was there we decided to escalate this case to the United Nations human rights mechanisms and so we created a report about her case and situation and how she's been seeking domestic remedies and how after the exhaustion of domestic remedies we went to you know International spaces and advocated for better reproductive Health Access, particularly legal abortion access in her case, for a lot of other women who have been denied. And what this case also did it surfaced a lot of other cases that happened in the country, similar cases but those women did not have either the resources or you know the voices and it didn't become these big cases.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: But it, because of this one case, it surfaced some of those cases as well, and Roda was a citizen-led organization or is a citizen-led organization where these cases kind of started coming in and they started providing this legal [unintelligible] technical support and it happened to be that two of the special rapporteurs on violence against women and one from the working group on discrimination against women and girls were present in Croatia at that time and so they got on board and we all worked on this report that that we escalated to the UN and started to advocate for that change at the UN level and so UN is the United Nations. And so, yeah and so I think that became one of my prime projects while I was in Croatia and obviously when I came back I spoke about that in my TED talk as well because it was an opportune time that I was there and it happened to be that I did have experience and skill set of creating these paperwork and documents because I had done it for my own research in the past, and so that became another key important component of my work in Croatia with Roda.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah. Well, one thank you for sharing because I feel like I just learned a lot in regards to the stuff that's happening in Croatia or what was happening in Croatia at the time that you were there I mean I would probably assume they're probably still, they need some work in regards to women's rights and abortion rights out there. So one I just want to thank you for sharing that and two just like it's, it seemed like the perfect time and very much alignment that you were there at that time to be able to lend some of your personal expertise to aid in that moment so that's really awesome to hear and so I want to shift to kind of our, our last question then we get to tea time with Tyra, which I'm very excited about, is that you also worked at the Women's Rights Institute and can you talk about the work that you did there and also the training that they'll be offering in the UK as well with your work there?

Bhavya Joshi: Sure, so I primarily, so Women Human Rights Institute is is an organization that was created founded by Alda Facio like I mentioned-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: One of my mentors, and it primarily focuses on building capacity and providing training and knowledge, mobilization in communities and women rights organizations across the world on how to use the United Nations human rights mechanisms for advocacy in their work. And so we work with several, partner with several organizations and women human rights groups but we also conduct our own annual trainings and programs. So the work that is happening in UK it's actually we are running a program in collaboration with the Oxford University. It starts in the first week of September and it's about a two-week program where we are going to train women from all over the world on the different human rights mechanisms that exist, how to use them for your advocacy work and for uplifting human rights women human rights in their, in different regions and countries.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: We talk to them about the whole UN system and how to navigate it, what components of that system are open for general population like you and I to access and use and how does that then benefit or amplify the work that these women human rights organizations or individuals or advocates are doing across the world. So that's a big component of the training and of course we bring people from the CEDAW as the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women which is the women human rights document at the international level that protects women's human rights. And countries sign these documents and ratify these documents which then makes them accountable for fulfilling these human rights in their countries and so, CEDAW, we get speakers from the committee, CEDAW committee, we bring speakers from special rapporteurs, special rapporteurs are individual experts-

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: On certain topics who are also kind of strengthening or who use, who basically strengthen human rights in different areas and so there are few that are specific to women rights.

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: There's a working group on women rights, there's a, you know special rapporteur on violence against women there's a special rapporteur on health and they basically lead those mandates internationally.

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: So we have certain special rapporteurs, etc., who are we are in panel with and who work with us as well and so we all become like speakers and you know mentors to these women in these trainings so that's the program we run-

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: Annually as an Institute it has been in the past been in collaboration with universities in Trinidad Tobago, Costa Rica, Toronto University, Oxford, universities in Nepal, all over. This year it's with, it's been with Oxford for a few years but this year we are doing [unintelligible] it finally once again in Oxford and the other part of it is that we also do collaborative work with different organizations. So for example we worked with interparities in the government in Canada to create a program specifically for indigenous women and their rights. We did programs, we did a program with women and women rights organization in Sudan, they are one of the countries that have not ratified the convention on women rights but they have expressed interest to do that.

Tyra Parrish: Okay, okay.

Bhavya Joshi: And so they're trying to build capacity in that country to then be once it has been ratified, how do they kind of-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Ensure its uptake and implement it and so we work with different groups across the world to not only, yeah share more knowledge and experience of working but also really helping them transfer those skills in the work that they do.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, and I guess, well, one just before we move on to the next section do you, are you, I guess what is the name of the training that you guys are offering through Oxford and if folks want to like tune into it or maybe like keep it in their head so that the next time around if they can register that they can like find it and register, because honestly in my head I'm like I wish I knew about this before here. But yeah is there like a name or like a website that like folks who are listening, who are interested or just want to get more info on the women's rights institutes and like different programming that they offer and the one that you're offering at Oxford is there a website and or name of the specific training so someone can lock it in into their schedule to keep an eye on next time around that you guys are offering?

Bhavya Joshi: So we have a couple of trainings we offer-

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: Every year, some of them are annual sometimes we call them seed of a change, I mean they have different names so-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: You can go on the website and look at it the website is called learn, l-e-a-r-n-w-h-r.

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: learnwhr. (learnwhr.org)

Tyra Parrish: Whr. Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, so that's the web.com so you can look that up. The name of the institution is Women Human Rights Education Institute.

Tyra Parrish: Okay, okay.

Bhavya Joshi: So yeah look that up and you can look at the different trainings. The trainings for the applications for Oxford this year have been closed now, next year the Institute will be celebrating its 20th year and so they will, they're still, we're still deciding on on our programs for next year. But

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: We can keep an eye out on on their website and the page and you can follow them also on Facebook, on LinkedIn, on all the platforms and if by any chance you follow me or you wanna follow any of my social media pages-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: I do also keep posting a lot about their work on my, on my pages as well.

Tyra Parrish: Awesome, and we will be linking your info so they will be able to find you. Either way, if you want to find it we have multiple channels and avenues and Bhavya just shared a couple more.

Bhavya Joshi: Absolutely, and hopefully I'll get this training to Berkeley someday.

Tyra Parrish: Oh, that would be, I will be the first person signed up I promise you that. Come to Berkeley in person. Okay, so now we're gonna shift to tea time with Tyra which I'm very excited about.

Bhavya Joshi: Oh, yay!

Tyra Parrish: So okay, first question is as you've progressed in your field have you encountered any moments of self-doubt or imposter syndrome?

Bhavya Joshi: Wow several times.

Tyra Parrish: And that's fair, that's fair.

Bhavya Joshi: I think when I entered Berkeley for one, that was for one for like-

Tyra Parrish: Oh my goodness.

Bhavya Joshi: I think a lot of us, most of us do feel that syndrome, but-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: You know, I think, I did think about it at that point, you know like why- why am I not feeling that I deserve to be here, right? And I think a part of my answer was that it's a bit to do with cultural upbringing. Especially in my case where it's very easy for me to feel defeated or low on confidence because-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: While growing up I was often told to be quiet or to not over share my opinions, not come across as this woman who's opinionated or loud or you know confident or any of that because that could intimidate people around me and that could change either their perceptions of me or that would make them judge me or gauge me very early on without really knowing who I am. And I think there's a part of that fear that always existed.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And so I think I had to do a lot of unlearning and I had to tell myself constantly that there is a space where my opinion is valued, there is a space where I can share my opinion without having that fear but I don't think at any point I felt that unabashed confidence comes naturally to me. I always have to work hard on it and I always have to keep telling myself consciously to you know recognize that I, my- there is space for my opinion.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And there will be value if I'm you know if I'm in the right spaces.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: So I think yeah there was, there's a lot of times that I feel it but I also feel like those moments are particularly challenging because for me I always have to, in that moment unlearn and relearn.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, yeah. And I think too where I almost wish there was, I almost wish someone created like another word because it, not another word, but it's just, I feel that sometimes like how you were sharing that it's not, I feel like just the word syndrome is also just not a good word, but, to describe it because sometimes it's like the environment itself is not affirming that you are supposed to be there. But that's like a very normal feeling if I walk into a room and I don't see people that look like me or people of color it's a very normal reaction to feel I'm not welcome, you know, if- that makes like, that makes sense and there's nothing necessarily wrong with you it's more so like why is there, why is there a desire for people of color but then you don't create environments that are safe for people of color, you know what I'm saying? To feel welcome so but I've also experienced lots of self-doubt and definitely imposter syndrome where I'm like they made a mistake. Like I snuck in here, like I, you know? And it's like you're right it's like an unlearning of like no all of these things I've done and all the work I've put in and my desire and passion validates why I'm here but you still always have that thought in the back of your head.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, especially in class where I'm like, I'm not getting this and everybody else is nodding their head like it makes sense.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: And I'm like, I don't get it.

Bhavya Joshi: Right, exactly. Or I understand it very differently, I'm not right.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: I'm understanding something else out of this. I'm not on the same page as you know everybody.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Professor or whatever, right? And so yeah it, it-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Comes and goes in waves I would say but but I think my experience in general has been that despite being in this institution I'm going to start embarking on my third year now, and-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: It's not been a moment where I felt any form of like unabashed confidence yet. That I'm just like oh I'm not an imposter like I'm-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Confident about everything I'm doing.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: I don't think I've been able to achieve-

Tyra Parrish: Be there yet.

Bhavya Joshi: Anything close to that.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, yeah. But you know what? I feel like it's like a yet, like because eventually from what I know about you I feel like you're gonna get there, so I can't wait to hear like that, because I'll be like Bhavya, help. Bhavya, help me. But, I resonate with you on the, the like that I don't even know what it is feeling, thoughts that kind of like, it's like a cycle like some days you can handle it real well then some days it's like a little bit tougher.

Bhavya Joshi: True.

Tyra Parrish: But I will say that I'm excited that you're entering your third year.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: And I'm excited for when you graduate because I'll definitely be like-

Bhavya Joshi: So very kind of you.

Tyra Parrish: Yes, okay. So we're moving to the next question, if you don't mind sharing are there any unique challenges that you, I said face but I think currently face because you're still you're still assuming at this time that you are currently facing and or face as an international student?

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, for sure. I think I definitely want to point out that I felt supported in my journey at Berkeley.

Tyra Parrish: Yes, yes.

Bhavya Joshi: I definitely want to point that out. I think Berkeley is a very interesting space and I speak for myself particularly, where I have despite the challenges we face they try to kind of support you in the best way they can. And there are certain systemic challenges as well that they face, but as a team as you know people in the school I think most, most of my experiences have been positive. So I'll lead with that, but having said that of course there are certain challenges that we face as students who are new to the American education system in general.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: I think the first is just with respect to funding and fees disparities, a lot of fundings are not open for us, obviously there's a big feas- disparity or differentiation in what we pay versus what domestic students pay, etc.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And, and it in some ways I can understand how that makes sense, but I also feel as a just as a product to achieve or let me rephrase that. Just in, just in an- or rather the process to achieve that fees or to fulfill that you know financial numbers-

Tyra Parrish: I see.

Bhavya Joshi: So that can continue your education that process and that journey becomes harder for us-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Because we just have to work a lot more to achieve the same outcome as a domestic student.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: When it comes to the fees.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And so while it might seem like it was just like oh you know, you are coming from another country and you're using our, you know resources and infrastructure here, so you ought to pay a little bit more.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: I think what we are losing there is that a lot of the countries that we come from the, dollar conversion is-

Tyra Parrish: Is, yeah, exactly. That's what I immediately thought.

Bhavya Joshi: It becomes so much more expensive for us to pay to be here, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And to be able to pay that we just have to do so much more hard work.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And so that whole length journey, there's no way that you forget that you're in, you're a student who who's come from a different space because you're constantly reminded by the system and I think that's just a very inherent loophole which is a challenge that we all face and I have also faced in my journey here. The other thing which is not as, as big of an issue but I do feel that at least an institution like Berkeley has the potential to address it in some ways, is cultural inclusion. And I know the school kind of does you know makes effort with respect to you know Ramadan and you know Diwali and festivals from other religions and cultures, etc., but I really wish we had like holidays for our festivals because what happens is that India is just a culture with a lot of festivals, etc., and Diwali comes like mid october-ish which is when midterms are typically happening and so there is a whole phase every fall semester in my life where I'm juggling just so much. I am trying to maintain my you know festivities and you know practice my right to religion and right to my cultural you know groundings and you know all of that.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: In addition to managing coursework and jobs and you know-

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And all of that and all of that and I feel like if there was a space where I could feel a little bit more supported in that thing where I had like, just small things like you know it's a you- it's Diwali it's your biggest festival of the year, like you know like we have Christmas we can't give you 10 days off, like we do on Christmas but you know take this day off.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Because we know it's a lot for you in general, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Or like don't worry about the submission of this, or like don't, you know just like-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: A lot of times I have to, if I really need that I have to seek out that support.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And I will definitely acknowledge that a lot of times people have given that support, as well, not always.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: A lot of times people have given that support, but I wish that there was some space for that cultural inclusion, a bit more.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Especially if you are trying to create a diverse environment I think these are some of the things that you can do with it to make it more honest in its diversity. And I think the third thing I would point out is mentoring with respect to navigating a new education system. I have done both my masters in different countries, I have done my bachelor in a different- like all my educations have been in different countries. And U.S education system is very interesting to navigate. And it had a certain systemic barriers and complexities that exist in this education system and it would have been helpful if someone was at least there in the first semester to help us better navigate those systems. I mean we end up learning it by the end of it and that's fine.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: But I just wish any support system in that space would have also improved my experience, especially in the first semester because by the second semester you get a hang of it, you know it.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: But still, I think if there, if there could be a designated resource who could specifically help us with like say you know, managing Bcourses or-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: These additional educational portals or like taxes or like you know, all the other you know, your requirements and paperworks and there's just so much more like systemic things we've got to do as International students that if someone was there like, here's a checklist don't forget these key things. Like you know just anything.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Just any support in that way particularly in my first semester where we are also trying to you know understand the cultural here, culture here, we're trying to settle down into new houses, we're trying to you know just navigating so much and juggling so much that it would have been helpful if that additional support existed.

Tyra Parrish: Yes. And you know what I'm really glad you shared that, because I think that's where my, I'll acknowledge the privilege of being here that I'm now, when you're talking I'm like oh my gosh stepping outside of that, a lot of the stuff in the US is like unnecessarily complex, and so I can't imagine someone just being thrown into that. It's like oh yeah, figure it out and don't forget you have tests and midterms and the syllabus and like figure out what classes you want, you know?

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: Like that's, that's a lot. And I think that your idea of having some type of programming or a specific person whose role is to help folks kind of get on their feet faster-

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah.

Tyra Parrish: In a way where it's more so someone who, that's their job to know that stuff and to help people, would be awesome. And I've heard versions of this at other like universities, particularly I know at NYU they do like, I've, I heard that they do for international students of like telling them like how to not get yelled at in New York.

Bhavya Joshi: Right.

Tyra Parrish: Like we don't want you guys getting yelled at or someone gets mad at you because you're just existing and not knowing the cultural things of like don't walk in the middle of the sidewalk. And in my head I'm like yeah, don't. But then also just like people will yell at you, and it's very true and it won't be nice and you're just, you don't know.

Bhavya Joshi: You don't know, exactly, right.

Tyra Parrish: And so like at NYU they have kind of like this informal session where they're just telling folks of like, hey like this is just how to not get yelled at, on accident.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: [Unintelligible], you know? I mean that's not exactly what you're talking about, but also like just in general like that's not, maybe they do it, but as far as I know I haven't heard anything like that happening at Berkeley but I think that's a really great idea.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah, like just like such a small thing but I've, the place where I come from you called the professor, you don't call them by the name, you say Professor.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly.

Bhavya Joshi: Or sir. Or ma'am, or something like that, right?

Tyra Parrish: Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Bhavya Joshi: Or- so when you do that you automatically are creating a hierarchy, right? In that dynamics.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Berkeley is a place where it a lot of times it's more collaborative-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Than hierarchy, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Like that is just so great, they're like supporting you, they're talking to you. I mean I'm not saying that all of them are like that, of course-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: They exists in some spaces as well and I'm not going to get in the way of the experiences of those who have experienced that. But I in general, my experience or at least with my advisor has been that it's very collaborative, right? And it took me a few months to even not call my own advisor with Professor Dash.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: You know what I mean?

Tyra Parrish: I'm the same way. Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: So-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And, and if I had approached that whole dynamics from the beginning in a more collaborative way I could have achieved things faster and more efficiently in my journey.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: I eventually got there, fair.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: That's what you mean, by second/third semester you get there.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: But if that help would have existed, if that support would have existed, even a 15-minute call with someone who is just you know cultural inclusion officer or something like that.

Tyra Parrish: Right, right, right.

Bhavya Joshi: 15 minute call where I'm not giving you the standard tips that I give everyone in the orientation, I'm giving you more specific to your needs.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Of suggestions and tips and advice.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: To help you ensure that your journey here or your, you know start in the program is more smoother.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly, exactly. Okay, so for the sake of time I'm gonna skip one of the questions.

Bhavya Joshi: Sure.

Tyra Parrish: I think I'm gonna try to hit at least three, so I think the first question that I'll ask is since we talked about cultural inclusion I would just skip to this question of what does representation diversity in the field of Reproductive Health mean to you?

Bhavya Joshi: It- firstly let me just say it's a very interesting question and a very complex question to untangle in the time we have.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah. There's no right answer I know.

Bhavya Joshi: But, but, but. I will say that for me of course reproductive empowerment, like reproductively empowering women.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And putting them in the space of decision making-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Is, is very crucial. I definitely want to see more women who look like me and women of color and women who belong from marginalized communities be at that table. Additionally I also want the whole process to be more inclusive, and that's very key for the representation part of your question.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: Because we need to I think, I think include all people who identify as women in that conversation.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah, right.

Bhavya Joshi: And I think another key part is like I, you know I've been sharing my experiences and you know part of it is that you bring these women to the table. Great. That's the outcome you've achieved, but I think what is also important is to create a support system for them to sustain at those tables.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: It's not just about getting them there and achieving your you know, like these you're checking your points of the list that oh we've got these many people or persons of color on the table, no, I think it's important that we ensure that we are giving them the support they need to sustain on those tables. To bring the perspectives that they bring which are more rooted into the realities, right?

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And very importantly, ensure that that support exists and that is a lot of work. I'm, I'm definitely it's not there's one part of it let's get these people on the table-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: And then sustaining that is a lot of work, and when you do that in, when you do all of this in fact, the whole process your approaching your orientation should be from the lens where you are saying that we recognize that they have been marginalized.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: And that recognition itself should facilitate a lot of these steps that support them, eventually. Because the moment you orient yourself with that you know recognition that yes they have been marginalized. You are not putting them there to save your ass.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: Some indicators, right? Sorry for my language, but I'll be-

Tyra Parrish: It's appropriate. It's appropriate.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah ,I- it, you know it's not about, it's not about that, it is more importantly you being very true and honest to that change you want to bring and why you want to bring that.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: That is really important, you recognize the history, you recognize those differences, you recognize the challenges they've faced, you recognize that for them to get here has been so much more harder-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Than people who've had other privileges and when you start recognizing that, your approach shifts and your actions shift from not just putting them on the table but to help them sustain and to make it a part of the system that automatically in a generation or in a decade or two or whatever, you just automatically bring more people of color on the table.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: Not, not consciously, but just you know?

Tyra Parrish: Yes, by-

Bhavya Joshi: It augments that process.

Tyra Parrish: Exactly, exactly. And yeah I feel like you said it perfectly, I have nothing to add because I totally agree with that, it's not just having people there to show face it is that step beyond hearing them, acknowledging what's been going on, and then making a change based off of that, and then sustaining that change which requires some like systemic and systematic change within organizations, within the way we think, within the way that we, like who we involve in those conversations consciously, and then like you said over time that's going to be the foundation and that's going to be the expectation. And I can't wait to see that day because that'll be a beautiful day for me and for other women of color. I'm just like-

Bhavya Joshi: Absolutely.

Tyra Parrish: Of like I hope you walk in the company and go why aren't there a lot of women? Huh? Why aren't there like women of color here, what's going on here? Like I want that to be the like confusion, you know what I mean? Like no, that's what we always do, why isn't it there?

Bhavya Joshi: And that doesn't mean that the compositions can be- cannot be different, of course-

Tyra Parrish: Right, yes.

Bhavya Joshi: There can be tables where women are not as much represented but that is not because of the systemic barriers.

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: That is by choice and that is-

Tyra Parrish: Right. And the most qualified at the table irregardless of what like-

Bhavya Joshi: Any identity.

Tyra Parrish: Gender you identify as it's because those are qualified people not because of well they're a man, patriarchy

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: You know, type behavioral stuff.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: Okay, I have to pick, I think I'll pick one more, I don't know which one because I like them both. Okay, I think I would love to hear your insight on what do you feel is different between Global reproductive health and domestic reproductive health? And actually, I'll just add in the last one, which is what is a fact you learned about your field that was shocking or surprising, so give us both.

Bhavya Joshi: The fact that I learned about my field that was shocking or surprising, I think, this I'll be quick with answering this one-

Tyra Parrish: It's okay.

Bhavya Joshi: Because I think it's the recent change in the reproductive health policies.

Tyra Parrish: Okay.

Bhavya Joshi: And the [unintelligible] that have been glaring and it was not that we as people working in the field of reproductive health did not anticipate that, because we've always got pushback because of the taboos and stereotypes associated with this topic.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: I think the shocking part for me was how quickly it came. And how less pushback it was for it to be reversed.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And I think that was, that was glaring for me and I think overall the de-prioritization of reproductive health that has happened because of those policy changes not in, not only in the US but in many other countries and we have to recognize that US has some sort of soft power and a lot of countries then try to justify their actions which they would have anyway done, so why blame the US, but they justify it saying that someone influential has done it. And you know, you don't even realize how those decisions end up, ends up impacting so many other women across the globe. And so I think for me, that has been a very surprising element that has come in at this point of, you know, this point in time where we went through COVID there's data that suggests that 92 percent of the countries across the world de-prioritized reproductive health services in some format or the other.

Tyra Parrish: Wow.

Bhavya Joshi: And despite all of that happening we have still managed to somehow pass policies and laws in US and in other countries as well that have further reversed, that have further hampered this health and this right of women and it has reversed years of work that went in to get to the point where we were.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Yeah so that was my not so short but still short kind of answer on on what was-

Tyra Parrish: It was perfect.

Bhavya Joshi: And then I think your second question was about the difference between domestic and global reproductive health.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: I think I can just quickly point this out Tyra, that whose perspective are we looking from? Because-

Tyra Parrish: Exactly, I knew-

Bhavya Joshi: I think that global health can be defined in many ways for me-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Domestic health could be healthcare in India and everything else is global health.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah. that's a very good point.

Bhavya Joshi: For [unintelligible] here it could be domestic health in US and everything else is global health.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: Sometimes regions consider themself, because they're very similar culturally you know in terms of policies and-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: They, or they've recently gained independence from a neighboring country or whatever, right, like-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: They could have a common reproductive health which they call domestic so I think the definition itself would could be you know elaborated here and-

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: Find better, but if we take the example of say US and India because I think those are the two contexts that we're currently in and I can talk about, I definitely the comparison between US and India is that there's of course resource disparity between the two countries. The US is also and the West in general is also a space where most of the decisions are made, policies are prioritized, funding is based on the decisions and policies that are prioritized here, so one year some influential person will be like oh we're going to focus on reducing maternal mortality, the next year they go to child mortality, the next year they're on to TB, and it doesn't mean that the other topics are not important. All topics are important, we have to address health of communities as public health professionals and that's fair, but I feel like what happens in the process is that we do not factor in a lot of cultural context-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: When we think about these decisions and and because the financial flow primarily happens from the West to other parts of the world, it unfortunately guides the agendas in those countries as well and it, a lot of the work that is done is almost in a way to please the agendas of people in the West and the powerful people.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And I think here, the whole debate on decolonizing global health becomes really important because-

Tyra Parrish: Right.

Bhavya Joshi: We have to find ways as a community, as a Global health community in the future to ensure that we are conducting ethical, inclusive, and sustainable research, where we are empowering communities at the grassroots level and communities that we're engaging in in a very respectful way.

Tyra Parrish: Right. And I also want to pause and acknowledge the fact that in the spirit of decolonizing global health which I am a big advocate for, but I also welcome the correction on domestic versus global because I think that's part of the decolonization process which is, it's like depends on one what you're talking about, where-

Bhavya Joshi: And who's talking about it.

Tyra Parrish: And who's talking about it and I think in that moment when I did make that question I was thinking perspective of like oh domestic being US and Global, whatever. But I think in the sphere of decolonization, that the US is not like the center of the world and then everybody else is just kind of like you know it's it's basically a form of othering and so I will say I welcome that correction and that in the spirit of decolonization or decolonization of global health I will think twice about the way I formulate that question because it could, you're right it could, have been formulated better and defined a lot better what I mean by domestic. Maybe like domestic practices of like when you're from one country and you're trying to work with other countries what that relationship looks like, because that is different.

Bhavya Joshi: Exactly.

Tyra Parrish: But yes, so I'm glad for those corrections, that's all I'm gonna say. Okay, and so sadly we are coming to the end of this amazing conversation that I've really enjoyed and also learned a lot, and so I want to thank you for being here, I want to thank you for being open, I want you for being honest about your journey into the field of reproductive health and the folks along the way who have pushed you there and also different organizations and fellowships with which you've been a part of and or currently are a part of, and so I want to end with some questions about self-care or any closing thoughts or advice that you want to give to our listeners, and so my first question is how do you stay grounded within your community and then I'll just add on top of that, what are some self-care and daily routines and habits that you've had incorporated into your life along the way?

Bhavya Joshi: Sure, but before before I get to answering that question I just want to quickly take a minute and appreciate and acknowledge you firstly thank you so much for having me, for bringing me, for choosing me to be a part of this conversation and also facilitating this conversation in such a respectful way and creating a space where I feel safe to share my background, my identity, my experiences in the most honest way possible because I know a lot of women could resonate with these experiences, I know it could help-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: A lot of women working in this field, in public health, in research, and reproductive health who have had similar experiences to know that there is a path for us no matter our background and there is a space where our voices can be heard so I really appreciate you for creating that space and for creating it in such a respectful way. So thank you.

Tyra Parrish: Thank you.

Bhavya Joshi: And and with that moving on to your final questions, so how do I stay grounded with my community well I think there's no big secret or mantra, I'll be very honest, I just very often think about my roots and I try to keep my- self-informed about how I got here, the journey, the process so that I can always be humbled and grateful for that journey and that and the roots that I come from. I also try my best to consciously place my efforts in low resource settings or in marginalized communities or with communities that have been left, systematically left behind.

Tyra Parrish: Yes.

Bhavya Joshi: So that I can uplift them. I know I'm not the best example but I am in some form an example of coming from those communities and I just want to keep going back to that work and uplift them because that's really where my passion stems from and then absolutely no way that I will leave that behind in my journey as a public health practitioner and professional.

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: And I think a big part of that is also to just stay connected while I'm here in the US, just stay connected with my networks and the people and the organizations I work with and you know the communities I've worked with in in the best way possible and see if there's any support, and be available to support them in any way that I can. And then finally for my own self-care work I think this is, I mean you must have heard this too many times but I do come from India so I do value yoga a lot and so I do focus a lot on yoga and breath work. I also try and journal as much as possible especially if I'm going through complex feelings, I think it helps me kind of untangle some of those complex, complexities as much as possible and I definitely on a daily basis try to step out and take at least, try to step out for a few hours every single day, it could be for a walk, it could be for a run, it could be just you know going outside sitting on a bench absorbing the sun, the sunlight and you know getting a refresh- you know take a walk by the ocean and these are all privileges that we have all of this accessible, that we can do it-

Tyra Parrish: Yeah.

Bhavya Joshi: But I try to make the most of that and try and take one day off a week at least, if not more and I also gift myself massages and vacations whenever I need that.

Tyra Parrish: As you should, and you have been living your best life on these vacations as I said earlier off camera but like yeah, I'm here for it. Yes, I feel like you're like the queen of self-love vacations because I was- and like I told you I'm taking, I'm bookmarking places to go.

Bhavya Joshi: Always reach out if you want, happy to [unintelligible]-

Tyra Parrish: And I will. So again I just want to thank you so much for what you just shared throughout this entire podcast, words of wisdom, also words of empowerment for women who are thinking about getting into this space we need you in these spaces and I think Bhavya has given just a plethora of just resources or starting places for folks who are wanting to get into this particular field of reproductive health and reproductive advocacy as well. And so, yes I just want to thank you here, I want to thank all the folks who are listening and tuning in feel free to add Bhavya, talk to her she's amazing I love her. And yeah, thank you so much Bhavya for for just being on this podcast, I just-

Bhavya Joshi: Thank you Tyra, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Tyra Parrish: Yes, of course.

Bhavya Joshi: Thank you all for listening.

Tyra Parrish: Bye, everyone.

Bhavya Joshi: Bye.