Do the Change with LaShyra Nolen

Part 1: Do the Change with Lash Nolen

TYRA PARRISH: Hi everyone welcome to the Do the Change podcast where we're challenging and reimagining the field of OEHS. So in this podcast we're gonna be focusing on highlighting leaders or current leaders in their field and how they got to where they are today with the special focus in the field of Occupational Health and environmental health sciences and also delving into Health Equity as well. So we're going to be talking about the hills and the valleys of their journeys and get some insight into some non-traditional paths into the field. So my name is Tyra Parrish I'm a recent graduate from the MPH program here at Cal and our guest speaker for this episode is Lash Nolen.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Hi.

TYRA PARRISH: So, born and raised in Southern California, Lashyra, did I say that right?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: Okay. Lashyra, Lash Nolen is a writer, advocate- activist and an advocate so, that was a good Freudian slip. So, dual degree MD, MPP student at Harvard Medical School and Harvard Kennedy School of government, where she is serving as a student council president of her medical school class, the first documented black woman to hold this leadership position. Um- oh gosh that word always trips me up with my stutter, a fervent?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Mm-hmm.

TYRA PARRISH: Thank you. Advocate for marginalized populations. Her voice has been featured in the New England Journal of Medicine, Health Affairs, and NPR among others. She is also a co-host of the Clinical Problem Solvers, Anti-Racism and Medicine podcast, and served as a member of the White House Health Equity Roundtable. In 2021 she founded the We Got Us, a youth-led grassroots community empowerment project, with the mission to increase access to education and healing for marginalized communities. An emerging leader in public policy, she is a 2023 new leaders Council fellow and a Harvard Kennedy School Center for Public leadership fellow. Lash attended Loyola Marymount University where she served as a student body president and graduated cum laude with a BS in Health and Human Sciences. Following her graduation she was selected as a Fulbright scholar and served as an Americorps member where she led public health initiatives to improve care for vulnerable populations. Her work has earned her the honor of being a Forbes 30 under 30, which is awesome, leader in healthcare, the 2020 National Minority Quality Forum's youngest 40 under 40 leader in minority health, a Boston Celtics Hero Among Us, and a Rock Health top 50 leader in digital health. Lash plans to continue to use policy writing and medical education reform as tools to impact the health of her future patients and community.
As a physician activist and public leader she is applying into interna- not international girl, internal medicine residency this fall. So Lash has done a lot and is planning to do even more, and so thank you so much for being on this podcast and just speaking to us about you and your experience and what you have like going on. So yeah, welcome.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Absolutely, thank you for that, I know my bio is like a mouthful because it's like all random things, jobs in there, so um thank you for that and I'm just I'm excited that you invited me.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah we're excited to have you. So first we're going to start with our check-in question. Just to get it going, so the first check-in question or the check-in question is: what is the first thing you notice when meeting new people?

LASHYRA NOLEN: I would say just their energy, like do they come off as warm, friendly, are they receptive to like my random jokes that I might throw out about the weather or like whatever we're at. Just getting a feel for like how somebody is and depending on how long I'm in the space I might see how they interact with other people. If they're like kind to other people, I think like that kindness piece is really big to me.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, I think for me it's very similar, like energy but also like how they- when they're talking with people are they like, I don't know what the word is, but it's like you can tell when someone's actively listening and kind of asking questions following what they've heard or what another person has shared.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, if they're engaged.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, how they're engaging with people, versus like, oh I'm just talking to you so I can talk about myself. Like sometimes you come across those people, but I feel like the people that- that's like the first thing I notice, is like how do you have conversations with people. So yeah, very similar like wavelength for sure, so yeah. Yeah, that's really dope. Okay so we're just gonna just jump right into it. So, can you share your personal journey and how you became interested in your field? And what sparked your passion or motivated you to pursue a career in this area and was the dream always medicine?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, that's a great question um because there was nobody in my family who was in medicine when I was growing up. No one in the Allied Health professional fields or anything in healthcare. So for me, like, when I first even thought about becoming a physician, it was third grade, Ambler Elementary School in LA, we had a science fair and I told my mom, like the day before, like hey it's a science fair tomorrow. And she was like girl what? So we basically had to like whip up this project together quickly. I remember we went to Walmart and she found something on Google, if Google existed then, some search engine.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And it was looking at how fish responded to light. And that was like my science project. And I ended up getting first place at that science project. I still have the medal in my room, because it's like, it was the first time that I had been rewarded for something related to science. And that moment really just sparked this interest in science for me, and I just kept on pursuing that. And I was like wow, I'm actually really good at this, I actually really like this investigative approach to learning and all of that. And I don't know where it came from, but then at that point I decided I was going to be a brain surgeon. Like, that was like, I would tell people. Yeah, and I was like dressing up as a doctor for Halloween ever since that point it really was like- support science fairs y'all because they really, they really do spark interest for the youth.

TYRA PARRISH: That's like the seed planting for sure.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, exactly. So that was kind of where it started for me, and I think that I always got positive feedback from adults whenever I'd be like, yeah I'm gonna be a brain surgeon. They were like: Oh okay, you something. You know, so it was it was also that too, and I really have to shout my family out for that, especially my mom who raised me as a single parent who was the first in our family to get both her bachelor's and her master's degree. And even though she wasn't in the health care field, she kind of showed me how important education was and beyond that, always just believed in me. Even though like I had never seen a black doctor before, it was how much my mom believed in me and she saw me and she was like we're gonna claim this dream together.

That just meant so much to me, like my mom would always keep tabs on like- I remember she would always tell me about this black brain surgeon, Dr Keith Black. I don't know if he's still practicing, but whenever she heard of like black doctors or anything, she would just send me like news clippings and videos, and it was just so incredible to have that kind of support. And the same energy came from my grandmother too, who didn't have the opportunity to pursue education beyond high school, but like always showed me the importance of giving back to our community. Through church, you know cooking praline candy for the kids after church and all that, but also, my grandmother similarly just believed in me so much. Like she would always tell me, I played basketball growing up, protect your hands, be careful, you know you're gonna be a surgeon. And it just kind of like claimed that dream in my mind for me already, like yeah I got to protect my hands because I'm gonna be a surgeon type of thing.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I think that that's really where the seed started, it was like this young black girl in Compton, who had never seen a black doctor before. But with the support of my family I was really able to see that dream for myself, despite the fact that I didn't see that black doctor until I got to undergrad basically. And I just, and I just really couldn't have done it without the support of my family, so this is really a win for us.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, and I really like how, like your family kind of supported you from both ends of even though that- even though like you shared that you didn't see a black doctor there, like that, that doesn't matter because you gone be the black doctor.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right.

TYRA PARRISH: On top of that then they start sending you like stuff of like, okay but you're actually like, we're there. We're not there in a lot of numbers but we're there. So you're kind of getting it from both ends of like, even if you don't see yourself, you can be that person that's in those spaces. And then in addition there are sprinkles of us in those spaces so there's also like, community there and I think that's just- oh I'm getting emotional. But that's like really heartwarming of like, that's sometimes all like someone needs. Where it's like, you just need someone to be like even if you're not there that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be there.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yup.

TYRA PARRISH: And then even like, black people have a very funny way of like supporting your- like, oh girl, like watch out you don't want to hurt your hands. And that's like such a very cute and creative way to further manifest that into your life. Like, I do gotta- it into everything.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right. Right. Okay you bad, you bad.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah right. Oh my gosh I love that. And I guess to further expand upon that, as you were kind of going through that journey and then through undergrad and even now, like were there any kind of mentors in addition to your family who were kind of keeping you going, or even like directing you to different like fields, not necessarily fields, but I know there's a lot of Specialties in medicine. So like were there folks who were kind of helping you kind of navigate that?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Absolutely. So yeah, so I- I go through high school, and while I'm in high school, had a very important family member to me die from a preventative health illness. And at that time, I was also starting to, because like once you've become the doctor in your family, I'm putting air quotes up for our listeners, they just think you a doctor. So like everybody in my family would come to me and be like: yeah, my family calls me Shyra, yeah Shy I don't know what's going on, I got the sugar, or like my blood pressure is high. So they're telling me all of their health issues, right.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I started to realize like man, a lot of my family members have these preventative illnesses like high blood pressure or diabetes. And I was seeing my family be impacted by it to the point that it was impacting like their their lifespans. And I think that that really kind of colored my lens differently as I was approaching like, you know, what do I want to do in medicine? So I went to LMU and I was a Health and Human Sciences major, and up until this point I had never seen, like physically, like a black doctor in front of me. And I had an incredible advisor at LMU through Health and Human Sciences, and her name is Dr. Heather Tarleton. She is like, just this badass black woman, unforgivable, and just like, just brilliant. Like I think that's the word that I would use to describe her, and when I stepped into her office it just felt like somebody was kind of passing the baton. It felt like my mom and my family was passing the baton to her, to kind of like hold me and keep me as I went through LMU. I remember I walked in there and I had my highlighters, and everything all lined up, like I was serious. And she was like, okay, like you really about to do this thing. And it was just so great to feel seen and to also see myself in her, because even though she wasn't a medical doctor, she had a PhD. And it was like so nice to just see someone who was gonna have my back and also like be a role model in this- in this path for me. So Dr. Tarleton studies like public health. And that's where her expertise is, and I think that she was the most pivotal mentor that I had at LMU, because her courses helped me start to think about the physician that I wanted to become. And then also my patients and how I want to care for them, and I started to think about well, as a a physician you see patients in the clinic, but so much of their health is impacted by what happens before they can even get to your clinic.

TYRA PARRISH: Exactly.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Whether it's their ability to transport themselves to your clinic, to get child care so that they can even go to that visit, do they have safe spaces to exercise? I mean, and this is right up your alley because you have your MPH, so you know all about that this.

TYRA PARRISH: Girl, yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Socio-political determinants of health, and that was the first time that I heard that term and it just blew my mind and it was like Dr. Tarleton, who like, you know taught me all of this foundation.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I started to reflect more about my own life, because I spent the larger half of my childhood in Compton, in LA. And when I was 10 years old we moved to Rancho Cucamonga in the IE, or the Inland Empire. Which is very white, suburban community and that was the first time that I started to be like, hold up like y'all got Trader Joe's out here, ain't no potholes in the street like y'all got three-

TYRA PARRISH: The pot-holes is so real.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Like, I was like wait a minute this is different. This is very different. No burglar bars on the windows, like. So I think that like, that first, second year at LMU is when I was like wow, like here's this combination of like my life, and a reflection upon all of those experiences, and who I imagine myself becoming. And I think that that's where like me becoming a physician was less about oh, I'm saying I want to become a physician because of the fact that people respond to me positively when I say it or it's like a good dream to pursue, it's gonna help me financially provide for my family. Because when I look up neurosurgeon they make a lot of money. It was like well I think that I want to actually dive deeper into what being an MD MPH or an MD MPP might look like. I want to dive deeper into: do I want to become a family medicine doctor or a primary care doctor? Because that might be more suited in the line for my vision for healing.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: I feel like that's really what that process and LMU was for me. And I think that that was such a crucial point in my development and trying to figure out the doctor that I would become, that I will be in the next year essentially.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, and I really love that because I think that, that like deep calling is what's going to push you through those really hard times. Like I think like having a grasp on like your core of who you are as a person, how it's connected to like your work or your life work, because it never truly ends, like healing never ends. And I think that, yeah and I think that sometimes when folks get into medicine, which is fair because it does pay your bills, it really does. But it's also like medicine also is very, could be very unforgiving in regards to the stress, in regards to the emotional load, in regards to folks are coming in sometimes at a hundred and you have to help kind of- them like work through that in addition to whatever you're also bringing into that space. And so having that really deep calling of like I'm here, like how you were saying I'm here because I want to facilitate healing in some ways and however broad you want to take healing, and that is what pushes you through those really challenging times. And so that's really- I can't imagine how or I guess I can't imagine learning about Public Health at that point, if that makes sense because that's just, I learned about public health like later on, and in my head like I'm like what? Like this is all like, what you said like, this is like, this is like my entire life essentially that's what public health is, but I can only imagine like how how much of an impact that would have if like that was kind of like, I don't want to say like a basic understanding of life, but I feel like if we had learned at the beginning of like- these things that are happening are not inherently tied to being a black person or inherently tied to being a person of color. That is rather like a whole bunch of things that are outside of your control, externally impacting how you can live your life. That's just a totally different way of looking at yourself, your community, and then other communities, and connecting with those communities if that makes sense. So.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah that's really, just-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, yes. No, I really appreciate that point that you're bringing up, because like even one issue that I have with medicine today, and I think that they're starting to do it better is saying like oh, well being black is a risk factor for developing diabetes.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: No. Racism and the sociopolitical constructs that promote oppression make it so that you're more likely to develop diabetes. And I think that that is really, that framework that we unfortunately don't get, because we studying Mendel's peas in biology class, instead of learning about the context that really undergirds all of those lessons.

TYRA PARRISH: Exactly that. I even think, well, on the CDC it still says that for cardiovascular- cardio- oh my goodness, cardiovascular disease, a risk factor is being black. And it's still up there, and I'm like y'all know better. And it's just it's just, it's mind blowing.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, it's wild. It's really wild.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, okay so I'm gonna jump to the next question, which is what was the journey like becoming the first documented black woman to be the president of your medical school class at Harvard? So kind of jumping from now you're talking about LMU into the like- or actually maybe if you if you don't mind before that talking about the application process, and like how that was for you like applying to medical school and then jumping into that. Because I feel like that's like a very important chunk that I'm just-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Absolutely. Right. Yeah, wow okay. So basically, so LMU was great. Met friends, lifelong friends lifelong mentors. Learned how to navigate a PWI, great skill.

TYRA PARRISH: That's a whole other episode. Love LMU, but also.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and I also was student body president at LMU too. And I think that what I was so thankful for, and I'll say this because I think it's important to like contextualize my journey, because I think people see the accomplishments that I have and they're like oh yeah she just wins. But like no. I just fell forward, like that's really what my life has been.

TYRA PARRISH: Falling forward. You're going. You're going somewhere with it.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, exactly. You know like you got to take every hit and just use it as an opportunity to just get up and get better. And I think that the way that that's presented itself in my life is when I applied to undergrad, or you know, to when I was applying to colleges I applied to like maybe 20 different schools and only got accepted to really like the Cal State's, maybe one of the UC's, and LMU just happened to send me like a pamphlet or something like that. Thank god I was on their mailing list. Because I was applying to like all of these like Ivy League schools. I was applying to like Harvard, I was applying to Duke and Yale, and they said no, no, no. They said no sweetie, not- really that was just God saying not now, not now.

TYRA PARRISH: That's right. Period. Because I think people think, where it's like that door might open next year, two weeks like, it's just like, it's like you said it's a not now or it's a very gentle like deferment of that's not your path, your path is bigger and better than what you have, like in your mind if that makes sense.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, I appreciate that.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And yeah I just wanted to bring this up for our listeners who, like no matter where you are but especially for our listeners who might be a pre-health professional student in undergrad, because like, I got denied from all these schools and I ended up at LMU, but I think that that was the best thing that could have happened to me. Because at LMU I had so much support that I was able to like leave there and go into the world like, you can't tell me nothing. You know what I mean? Like I had the leadership experience, I had gained like the academic confidence, I knew how to walk into office hours and be like look this is what I need, I learned don't you leave a class with a doubt in your mind about anything, without asking that Professor to clarify it for you, because you paying to be there. Like just so many helpful life lessons that have made medical school so much easier.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So I just wanted to like drop that nugget in there for me. And you know, I also didn't have the easiest time my first year at LMU, academically. Like it was the first time that I was taking both chemistry and biology at the same time. I was- I looked at that schedule I said oop- so we don't take it in two different semesters we take it-

TYRA PARRISH: This is 8 AM to 5 p.m I remember.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes! And I said oh, and they have lab too, and the lab is one unit but we working for eight hours. It's fine, it's fine, I'm not mad about it, but I am.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: It was just like- and a lot of my classmates, they were coming from like schools where they had like done like, AP Chemistry or like you know, it's kind of like it was a breeze for them. It was like a review for them and for me, like they offered like AP Chemistry at my high school and stuff but I just never had the confidence to like take that class, so it was a transition. But, I did really well you know, from that point forward because I got my my footing. So I just wanted to share that nugget so that you know that even if you struggle early on, it's about- it's not always about how you start, but it's about how you finish.
TYRA PARRISH: Exactly.

LASHYRA NOLEN: I think that that's something that I learned.
So now that we got that, so you know that you know, it wasn't all just like you know, rainbows and unicorns we can fast forward to my senior year at LMU and basically I took the MCAT right after graduation, that was rough because everybody was celebrating, traveling, I was like you know deep in the amino acids. It was tragic. But, the reason why I wanted to take it then is because I had gotten the Fulbright Grant to go to Spain.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So I went there, I taught English in Galicia which is the most Northwestern Province, right above Portugal and Spain. I was the only black woman, like in the area.
TYRA PARRISH: Okay, yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And that experience was interesting, but so empowering because I really learned to own my blackness and how to communicate the black experience in America for me to people that have never interacted or interfaced with like American culture directly.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So it was really inspiring and powerful in that way. And then my second year I did Americorps. And I think that that's like really what colored like my experience in medical school even more, because I was doing Americorps, I was working as a health educator at a federally qualified health center, which is like a community health center that gets federal dollars. I was living on the south side of Chicago, but I was working at the clinic on the north side of Chicago. And every day I would have about two hours of a commute. You know, including from and back so I would just read. I would like- I read like The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. I read The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabelle Wilkerson, I was introduced to e-viewing. Like it was like my mind was expanding as I'm taking these train rides.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: But then on top of that, I'm noticing that as I come from the north side to the south side that all the white folks get off at the Roosevelt stop, and all the black folks stay on the train as we journey into the south side, and then things start to look a lot more like Compton. So it kind of felt like I was going from Rancho to Compton every day. And that was like a reflection of my own life experiences.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: On top of that I was a health educator, so these patients will come in, they get a new diagnosis of hypertension, diabetes. I'm supposed to tell them how they can make these small, you know smart goals to improve their health, but I'm like I'm telling you to eat less tortillas, but you can barely put food on the table to afford you know healthy vegetables for your family, or could barely afford to get here. So I think that all of those experiences, the personal growth that I had in Spain and then also the experiences that I had in Chicago, like allowed me to go into my interview process, as I was interviewing for med school with like this, as we talked about, like purpose. Like I knew what I was there to do. I was like we're here to dismantle systemic racism, as it impacts health. And I would say, and I was like and we about to do this for like unforgivably, for black people like-

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: You know, and I think that that was kind of the mindset that I came into this with. And I think that it just was so liberating to know that the schools that accepted me, many of the schools that accept- so it was like the opposite, I applied to 15 Med schools and got into every one that I interviewed at. Which is, wow. So it was like 14 Schools.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And that was wild, you know it was like the setback for the comeback, all over again, the same schools that rejected me were giving me full scholarships to go to medical school, it was such a blessing. But what felt the most rewarding and special to me is that I did it unforgivably myself. Like I knew from my application, the way I presented myself in my interviews, that this is what I'm coming to do. And I think that having that sense of purpose really has just made the journey up to this point so impactful and special to me.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, and I, I really want to highlight how when you were talking about your travel, or this- you being on that train and taking the opportunity to not only read, but to also be aware of like what's happening. And I feel like that is like a very small but it's very important, of like just being aware and cognizant of like what you're experiencing or seeing, and then also kind of reflecting on that. So I think sometimes like we're in situations or spaces where it could be very easy to kind of get swept into like this is what I'm here to do and this is like all that I need to do, this is my business and this is what I get paid for and that's it. And I think that like while, yes I'm all for the like, there's a balance between like don't let yourself be taken advantage of to where you're being overworked for what you're being paid, but then also there is this- I don't want to say a responsibility but I think there is a little bit of responsibility of being just aware of what you're seeing, and how if you're- like how you said your goal was in regards to healing, and also dismantling like systemic racism and oppression in the medical field.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: You need to be aware of like what you are seeing in regards to like you said, like white people getting off on Roosevelt you said? I'm not from Chicago.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, Roosevelt, yep.

TYRA PARRISH: You're getting off on Roosevelt and you're like hold on, like what's going on? And then you're seeing-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: And you're also experiencing, like you're having to tell your patients like different things in regards to like how they can change their diet, but then you're also like- it's, it's just I think that being a physician requires that. Like you need to also obviously give medical advice to your patients but also be aware of the fact that is it- is it fair to tell someone hey yeah you should be buying this, this and
this knowing good and well that like that's-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right.

TYRA PARRISH: Like that's just not like a fair statement to say also. And it's like balancing that but that requires this level of social awareness and wanting to be aware. And I think that in those mo- in that like experience that you were sharing like you were being aware of that and I think that that's- and then also demonstrating that when you're doing your interviews as well. Like this is me this is what I've noticed, this is what needs to be like- this is what needs to change and like that's it.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly.

TYRA PARRISH: Right, and then also I feel like that's just huge because I think sometimes folks- because I'm also, God willing, getting into applying to medical school also. But I think that there is this fear or like narrative, like you have to present yourself a certain way when you're applying to medical school. And it's like you could be yourself and still get accepted into medical school, because what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong and I really appreciate that you stood ten toes down in that. And that's really dope.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, exactly and that's so exciting that you're applying to medical school. Yeah, I think that I really appreciate how you draw- how you drew out this point about like being aware and like having the opportunity to be perceptive and I think that that opportunity was really offered because I I took those two gap years.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Because before then, it's like when you're pre-med and you're just going through the pre- like I have so much respect for people that go straight through. But I also worry about them, because I'm like there's so much life that we don't get to see or experience or even, like so much of ourselves that's left unexplored.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: When we're on the pre-med track because it's like Organic Chemistry, General Chemistry, Bio Chemistry, Calculus. Like it is just a non-stop grind. Volunteering over the summer, you got to be doing something. You in somebody's lab, you pipetting. On top of that you're trying to like maintain your sanity, spend time with your family, your friends. So there's no time to like really reflect and be like: dang, like who am I becoming? Who am I? Who do I want to be? Like what- what is happening? Like am I in tune with myself? And I think that having those gap years, I journaled and I read a lot. And I got to read what I wanted to read, and I think that that is what elevated my consciousness and my purpose because before that time like I was just following the path that I thought I had to follow without having a true sense of direction. And I think that even if you go straight through or you take gap years, like really using that time to pour into yourself and I think that that really benefited me.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, and I guess I want to now loop back to the first question which is okay, so now you've got into Harvard Medical School, how was that journey to being the first like documented black woman or black woman who was the president of her medical school class? How did that happen?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah so, so basically I didn't apply to Harvard Medical School at first.

TYRA PARRISH: Okay.

LASHYRA NOLEN: It was one of my mentors, two of my mentors who were like Lash, you need to apply to Harvard. I was like well I ain't going to that bougie school, like they're gonna just take my money and not give me an interview or whatever. So I apply, I get an interview I'm at my interview like, I have a like damn near panic attack in the bathroom before the interview, because I'm like yo I'm at Harvard like I'm tripping right. Like-

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: You step onto campus at Harvard Medical School and like it just takes your breath away because like the building is like all marble it's just like so extravagant like things are gold trim, there's like white men, like all on these portraits everywhere. And you're just like what is going on? Like Paul Farmer studied here. Like it's just so extravagant and I think that I just needed some time to just catch my breath, like literally anything they gave me that interview day I kept it. Like they gave us like a little like folder, they had the Harvard like logo-

TYRA PARRISH: Oh yeah, yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: on there I said yeah we gonna go ahead and just keep this and put some documents on here.

TYRA PARRISH: Right, you're lowkey getting your reparations, like I'm gonna take this-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Let me see this, the ancestors right there. So yeah, but the long story short, I got in. I was ecstatic, I was like oh my god like it, you know I told all of my family and my friends and Dr. Tarleton, my mentor. And they were just like this is this is an incredible opportunity, and I just knew that like even in my decision, it was tough because I was like do I do I stay home in Cali? Because there's some incredible medical schools here, I'd be closer to family and all of that. Or do I go to Harvard Medical School and I bring my family, my values, I bring La, I bring everything that is meaningful to me into this space, because I don't know when- when they will have someone who can bring what I can bring to the space again. So as soon as I got to Harvard, like I just got busy. I was like you know what, I'm gonna run for Student Council President and I'm not going to run on a platform of like fun and festivities. Like I'm a run on a platform that's saying like hey like we're gonna do the difficult work, we're gonna hold the institution accountable, we're gonna do great work for social justice. And I was just so excited to see that my classmates agreed with that. Because I did have a little bit of an identity crisis when I first got there. I was like, well the other people who might be interested in running, like they're like throwing all these parties and stuff like that, and that's just never really been me. So like again to your point, like always returning back to self and like remembering like why am I doing this? like what what makes this me? And just- and going with that.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I think that that's kind of what that experience was. When I first won I didn't realize that I was gonna be the first. Like in this, in this role of student council president.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I was elected like in, it was 2019. It was like maybe September of 2019.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And like, no one really like cared about it. It really wasn't in like the news or nothing like that, but then one of my incredible classmates, Victor Lopez Carmen, he's like one of my really good friends, he decided to do a Q&A with me for teen Vogue. And talking about how I had been elected into this role, and he was like yeah I think it's important for people to know about this. And it blew up and suddenly like The Lily from Washington Post, it was AfroTech, I was about to do an interview with CNN, but then like the pandemic and things got ridiculous and scary. And yeah it was, it was really cool, like you know Vice President Kamala Harris like you know, had tweeted that I was President.

TYRA PARRISH: Period, yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: It was wild, yeah. But I think that there were two things going through my mind. The first was: why did it take y'all so long? And the second was like this is cool, like I'm doing cool work within Harvard. But like, what about the black women that never make it to Harvard? What about the black women that are outside the walls of Harvard, like down the street in Roxbury, where the life expectancy is 23 years less than like where there's white folks right down the street and Back Bay? Like I think that that's like, in that role I was just like yeah this is really cool but I think that there's something bigger here, and I think it's easy to be in institutions and be serving these institutions the whole time you're there, and you leave and you're like, well what have I really been able to do for like my people or my community? And I think that that was heavy on my heart, my mind, even as I was in that role.

TYRA PARRISH: Hi guys this is Tyra Parrish, your host for this episode, and we have reached the end of part one of this conversation with this amazing speaker don't log out yet, because part two to this conversation has already been posted so go ahead and click over to the next page, and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel and Spotify page.

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Part 2: Do the Change with Lash Nolen

TYRA PARRISH: Hey y'all welcome to part two of our conversation with our amazing speaker on the Do the Change podcast. We're going to hop right back into the conversation. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Spotify page, and follow us on Instagram @dothechangepodcast.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah and you know what, I- that last part you said about like the doing the work while you're in these academic institutions and for these academic institutions and then kind of stepping back and being like, okay like how does this translate outside of these spaces? I think that's so, I'm just gonna say it. It's so real because I think that at least the, at least- maybe it's just the way that I kind of view it but it's like a per- like the the measure of a person is really determined by how you impact others and I think that if you're like doing the work within- using institutional resources to do work is awesome and great. But I think figuring out how to, particularly with Ivy leagues like Harvard and like Yale, of like these institutions do have a history of extracting from our communities. It's like how can we use those resources to then restore the harm that's been done and I think that's what you're pointing out of like, yes it's great to do that work but -and it's great that- like how you were saying like it's always great to be the first because there needs to be a first. But it is kind of like jarring that 2019 is the first. But it's also like yes this is great, but also like let's, let's go to the next five, six, seven, 10 steps of like what do we do now, you know?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right exactly. But I mean let's keep it 100. Like we have, we have a- we've had a black president, a black US President. We now have a black female Vice President of the United States. But what has changed about the condition of black people?

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: If we look at where we were like 20 years ago and now, like some would argue that we're worse off right?

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And that's not to say that those individuals being in those spaces is not valuable and it's not inspirational. But, what's happening with our people? Like I think that we really have to try to figure out like it's- to understand that it's not enough to be the one that makes it out right? Because like my cousins are brilliant but they didn't get to go from Compton to Rancho right? In some ways like Rancho could have been more traumatic in other aspects, but like what I'm getting at is like resource access.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Mentors like Dr. Tarleton. Like how many students get a Dr. Tarleton in their life, you know? Or have a mom who, like can- even though she might not be as familiar with your dreams still like uplifts you and and believes in them. So I think that that's- that's just been such an important thing for me to remember and to stay humble. Like yeah I'm at Harvard Medical School and Harvard Kennedy School etc but like that's not enough. Like I am enough like and I believe in myself but I think that it's easy to get comfortable and to feel like yeah, well you know now it's up to them to try to get here.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, right and you know, what I'm really glad you said that because that transitions into my next question in regards to like how can we help our community, so you are the founding executive director of We Got Us, which is a really cool grassroots organization and so can you talk to us about really that dream stage of that program, which it sounds like it's probably tied to what we just talked about, and yeah so where did you draw the inspiration from and what was like that process kind of bringing that to life?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Absolutely, so basically it was, I want to say it was 2020-

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I went home for Christmas break in the pandemic, and the vaccines were first approved, and I just remember getting so many text messages and phone calls from family members like: hey like what's good with this vaccine, Lash? Like do you think that this is safe? Do you think that it's for black people? Like these were the text and calls I was getting, and as I was responding to folks you know having phone calls and stuff I started to think about how I was in this unique position like as a black woman and also as a black woman in medicine, because I kind of have my my foot in like both of these worlds and I think that the medical institution has this like really problematic history and this problematic present when it comes to interfacing with our communities. And I was like but I wonder like how many people have access to like a cousin that's in medical school and the reality is not not many, right? Right so we think about like there's like 13.5% of- of like our society that's black and physicians- only black physicians only make up you know about 5 percent, 6 percent of the profession.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: But yet there's so many studies that are coming out about how racial ethnic concordance leads to better health outcomes and there was data coming out at that same time that even around the vaccine, black folks in particular were more likely to want to seek information about the vaccine if it was coming from somebody that looked like them and understood their life experiences.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So this is kind of like the history and the context that got me starting to think about We Got Us, but then as time went on I was realizing that the way that the media and like public health officials were going about trying to get black folks vaccinated was all wrong. They were trying to show on television like oh yeah she a black nurse she getting vaccinated so then you should too, or LeBron James got the vaccine so you should too.

TYRA PARRISH: Oh my gosh, yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And like it was almost offensive, like it was offensive.

TYRA PARRISH: Because they're weaponizing the exact thing that we- that we like, that exact feeling of oh this person looks like me, I trust it. They were weaponizing it to then you know, like using it in the wrong way, like okay now, now we don't know who to trust, you know?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, exactly that point exactly 100%. And then on top of that there was all this focus on like oh well black people don't want to get the vaccine because of Henrietta Lacks and Tuskegee.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: I'm like I have never heard Tuskegee or Henrietta Lacks ever talked about at my dinner table. Like that was not a conversation that like the black folks were having. Maybe some, maybe they were probably having it because they saw it on CNN because you brought it up.

TYRA PARRISH: Right right now everybody like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, hold on one second.

LASHYRA NOLEN: You're right yeah you right-

TYRA PARRISH: You right, actually you just added something.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly, like but the thing that we are talking about our dinner tables is the experience we had when we got a pap smear last week, or how long it took to get an appointment, or how that receptionist might have disrespected me, or how somebody disregarded my pain when I was in labor. Like those are experiences with the medical institution happening like today and yesterday that are influencing the reason why we don't trust you to get this vaccine.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So that was like the context that I was like trying to help people understand when I was having conversations with like my white colleagues like they're like Lash, you know what do you think about this? And I was like we need to have an honest conversation and reckoning with medicine and public health's like roots in racism and we need to acknowledge the fact also that this vaccine is not a silver bullet. Like sure people can get vaccinated but what's going to happen when like this housing moratorium ends or what's gonna happen when you know people are disenrolled from Medicaid, like you know we were putting- like the vaccine was like a tool but it still was not going to fix the broken house you know. And I think that those were the points that I was really trying to get across with people, and I was like this is the strategy that we need to help black folks learn about the vaccine and decide if it's the right choice for them so that's where We Got Us came from. I love Issa Rae, I love Insecure, and I remembered We got Y'all and how-
TYRA PARRISH: I'm so glad you said this because I wanted to ask so bad. I'm like if I'm wrong this is not going to be good, but okay continue sorry. I'm so glad because I was like there's no way it's this similar like there's no way, sorry.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, yes.

TYRA PARRISH: That's so awesome.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, so, so yes. On insecure for folks who might not know there's like this problematic white woman who's like the executive director of this nonprofit called We Got Y'all. The logo is this extended white hand with maybe like five or six black children in the white hand, and it's like We Got Y'all, right? So I was like okay, I know what this nonprofit is gonna be it's going to be like young people collaborating with community organizers and people in the health field to like make sure that we have information and access to the vaccine, but what's the name going to be? And I was like ah! How about We Got Us and instead- like instead of it being like the white hand carrying us, it'll be like four hands coming together interlocking as a way of saying like yeah like we're going to get through this together essentially. So yes, that is like the origin story of We Got Us.

TYRA PARRISH: That- okay because when I tell you I was like, I was like I saw it and I said ain't no way and then I had to Google it. I'm like no, I'm not crazy like there's like it's it- all I'm gonna say is it's beautiful because I feel like too, like I don't know if you meant to but tapping into that cultural reference because Insecure is a- I feel like now I could say it's a cultural reference for our community. And I feel like just seeing We Got Us, immediately I went isn't that- Issa Rae got something called We Got- wait hold on and then it made me-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly.

TYRA PARRISH: I literally was pulling up the two like hold on. And it just made it that much more like, I I don't want to- it was like funny in like a this is- this is super dope like funny, like this is great. And then also it just adds like that extra of like I already feel connected to this because I'm connected to that like show.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, yes 100%.

TYRA PARRISH: That is awesome and you're genius for that, seriously.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Thank you, yeah. Unfortunately like I feel like they don't watch enough Insecure in Boston, because like not a lot of people understood it. But I already know like if this was like founded in LA everybody-

TYRA PARRISH: Oh girl, Issa Rae would be knock knock on your door immediately- 

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right, right. I might have been in the Barbie movie, you know?

TYRA PARRISH: Oh, purr. Yeah. Oh my gosh, okay I'm gonna I'm gonna jump to the next question but that is- oh that just, you just answered a deep question I had that I didn't have an answer to but-

LASHYRA NOLEN: I'm so happy I could do that for you sis.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes, okay so the next question is: how do you balance being a student in a medical institution and space that has also perpetuated historical and present harm like you shared on black communities and communities of color and then also like how do you re-center yourself like in those moments? I can only imagine like maybe this is me reaching but like sitting in those classes and you're hearing about all these different techniques or calculations where you're like like I don't like that, but then also having that inner goal of like okay, but this is, I'm going to use this to create healing. Like how do you balance like those kind of emotions or experiences and then also how do you re-center yourself? Like are there things you kind of do or people you talk to and stuff like that?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, this is such an important question. I think for me it goes back to like our general discussion of like purpose and why, because when I came here it was always like I'm loyal to my people. Like I'm loyal to my community I'm not here to just be a talking head for Harvard like that's not my objective and it never will be. So I think that I was very blessed in that early on in med school, like my first two, three months of med school I wrote my first academic paper ever, and this is when I was accepted to the New England Journal of Medicine. And it was about how we were learning about Lyme disease but we were only learning to recognize how Lyme disease presented on white skin, and in doing more research I learned that black folks tend to present with later stage Lyme disease which has serious implications for the heart and the brain, the neurological system because of the fact- or you know authors believe that it was partially because of the fact that we aren't learning to recognize these dermatological illnesses on patients with darker skin. And, and the response that I got from that paper was incredible. Like it actually was able to make a difference. It just helped me learn that writing was a way that I could make a difference and express myself and do so in like a tactful way, because I think that sometimes it's easy to be like yeah well these institutions ain't nothing. And they do this they do that but it's like what, what are, what are you trying to change like how do we get more exact and granular like we're talking about the system? Like who are we talking about in the system, is it the CEO? Is it the President? Is it the manager of the custodial staff? And I think the more granular we get the easier it becomes to make change because sometimes when we just chalk it up to the system, it's like who, who are we trying to get at, you know what I mean? And it just makes us a little bit more effective, or it's been- that's what's helped me become more effective as an advocate. I also wrote my first Op-ed ever and it was basically to advocate for funding for this program that helped fund me to take the MCAT or to do MCAT prep basically, and it's called HCOP, the Health Careers Opportunities Program. It's like a federally funded program that was at risk of losing funding and I wrote this Op-ed and it- I collaborated with the AAMC and was able to essentially like help that program get an increase in funding, beyond it even just being saved and kept in the budget. And I was like-

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Whoa. So I just had like these early wins in my life.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And I was like man, like this writing stuff is is- is awesome like

TYRA PARRISH: Right, like okay-

LASHYRA NOLEN: I was like okay, let me just get back to typing.

TYRA PARRISH: Email the president for a couple million you might as well.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, exactly, exactly and what was wild is that like I was- I had just got on Twitter like after I got accepted to medical school and that's when like this idea of Med Twitter started to become more popular.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes, I love Med Twitter.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes. And a lot of my Op-eds that I've written or, or think pieces have started as tweets.

TYRA PARRISH: Oh, okay.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Me just kind of expressing myself. Like that Lyme disease article, like that came from a tweet and what's wild is that when I write a cover letter sometimes for a paper, I'll link the tweet in there so that the editors can see like that this is something that people are interested in and that it's like a popular discussion.

TYRA PARRISH: That's really smart.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that like as social media becomes a more prominent way to like disseminate knowledge and research and stuff, I highly suggest like linking in whatever you're tweeting or writing and stuff on your professional pages. So yeah, back to your original question I think that that is- what has allowed me to kind of like survive in this space is number one staying true to my purpose and why I'm here, number two is learning to speak out when something is wrong and doing so in a way that is actually constructive. Like I can say yeah like Harvard you racist as hell, but it's like okay what I try to do is say you're racist as hell and this is how you're continuing to harm our patients because you're supposed to be an institution of healing and what you're doing is antithetical to healing, so therefore thus we must try to be an anti-racist institution you see what I'm saying?

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, I'm here for it.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah so I feel like, you know and this is this is my strategy like some people are like nah like let's we need to come in a different way. I'm like yes we need everybody coming in with different types of strategies, but I think that like as a student leader, as a writer, and as someone who speaks often about these topics I think that that is how I've been able to hold my institution accountable while them also maintaining their respect for me as like a colleague.

TYRA PARRISH: Right, right, right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Because I'm trying to help us become better at what we're supposed to do as healers and the way that we're operating right now is not helping us achieve that goal. And I think that that is how I've been able to kind of maintain both of those sides but I'm always loyal to my community first, and I'm always gonna hold my my institution accountable.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah and I love that because I think that that area that you hold yourself in is it's just, I can just relate to it 100%, because it's like you can still say what you need to say, but then also like it's like just being respectful but also like okay, but I said what I said. But it's in a way- and then also like if- also holding people to their word if you're saying we're going to be a quote unquote antiracist institution or we're going to be XYZ, but then your actions are saying otherwise then that's like an easy- of like hey we said this but we're doing this, and therefore like you said this, this, this, this, this and that's like a respectful way to be like y'all are mis- like it's misalignment on whatever is going on in there. And I think that that is the way, or I don't want to say it's the best way, but it's a it's another path for for folks who maybe aren't as radical or aren't as like get rid of all of it and it's like yes get rid of all of it, but also you can also lead with the we can get rid of all of it and then we should also replace it with XYZ because of he said in XYZ and whatever type stuff, so.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right.

TYRA PARRISH: Here for that.

LASHYRA NOLEN: 100%, exactly, exactly. And I think what's also allowed me to like maintain my sanity is like I can, I can do that work within Harvard but then like We Got Us is where I'm able to like be my radical community activist self.

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right, I'm like you know what, you know We Got Us is like still going, we're still doing the work and for example we have these acupuncture clinics that are actually named for Dr. Tolbert Small who's based out of Northern California. He was a personal physician to the Black Panthers, and we have these acupuncture clinics that we do during the summer. We center anti-racism, and all of the pamphlets and resources that we create for the community-

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Is great because like We Got Us is my vision for creating these spaces for black folks to come together and we got us and like help us right based on our own resources and time. But then I'm also like this space has so much power like these, these elite institutions. And we cannot just allow them to continue to cause harm as they, as they continue to today so you know we can't reform these institutions necessarily, but we have to hold them accountable because that's what's causing the immediate ills like today.

TYRA PARRISH: Right, okay. So I feel like we've already touched on- I was going to switch a Tea Time with Tyra but I feel like we've touched on a lot of these, I'm just- I'm like, I'm like whoa It's been tea time this entire time. But there were I guess there's two that I would be interested to like hear your thoughts on, so we are now entering Tea Time with Tyra officially I guess. So the first question is do you see a place and or space for non-traditional or nonwestern practices of medicine and like what has been your experience with that and I guess how do you imagine maybe seeing it being integrated more into the medical space?

LASHYRA NOLEN: 100% 100% I was no specialist or expert in regard to acupuncture but one of my incredible classmates, who did some work at the Freedom Clinic in Oakland, one of my good friends Bernie, was like Lash like we should bring this to Boston, and that's kind of like how the Small Steps project started with us. And I didn't realize like how much acupuncture was promoted by and used by black folks like even here in the US, like as a traditional practice and even when we're out in the community so many community members will be like oh I miss acupuncture like I used to do this all the time but now it's so expensive, because it's been commodified and it's kind of become like a sexy self care thing that wealthy white folks will do. And it kind of is seen as like oh- I think just in general it is so interesting like when black folks do something it's seen as like not- or not clean or not real medicine but then like when you package it and make it a business and you make it something that wealthy white folks do regularly then it's like oh yeah that's like that's like the next high class-

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Medicine or extension of medicine or whatever the case is. Like I mean I've been- about this a lot, it frustrates me so much when I see like cannabis like businesses everywhere that are not black owned, and it's like yeah you know like "smart cann" and it's just like so cute and I'm like it's just so wild to me that people's lives were literally like destroyed.

TYRA PARRISH: Destroyed, yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Now it's cute and fun but that's an aside. But basically, through the We Got Us project and the Small Steps project in particular in our clinics, that's been my exposure to, to traditional healing and when my patients like bring up acupuncture or Reiki, or sound therapy I have never been one to be like what? Like you need to just take your insulin, because no. Because we know that everything that is mainstream medicine is mainstream because somebody got to put the filter on earlier so that it would become mainstream and a lot of these filters have been put in place by individuals who benefit from a current system or a current aspect of mainstream medicine or because they didn't view it in their you know perception or because of their subjective opinion that it was worthy. And I think we even see that with medical journals, like now we're starting to see more things published on racism in medicine, but people have been talking about this for a very long time but people didn't see it as scientific enough to be published. So I think that's one version of like how what is mainstream and what is seen as like you know Western medicine, how that can be really a reflection of colonialism, a reflection of racism and how it manifests in medicine. So I'm all about holistic healing, and I think that the more that we can combine these approaches and I think that inserting them at the right time in a patient's timeline and care, like I think that there is a time when you do need insulin, right? Because the diabetes has gotten to that point, but I think as much as we can bring all those practices in early on and use them in conjunction to promote healing for patients, like I'm all for that.

TYRA PARRISH: Gotcha, yeah. And thank you for sharing that in regards to, I also like the framing of just calling it all traditional medicine, because it's just medicine at the end of the day and I think that's, and I think that's something I'm going to have to integrate into my brain of like there isn't non-traditional versus traditional it's just medicine. It's just-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Right.

TYRA PARRISH: Different ways to go about like having the most optimal health for yourself and not for what someone else deems as best for you, so thank you for that very gentle correction. I got it, but I I receive it.

LASHYRA NOLEN: No we're here.

TYRA PARRISH: I should have just it's just traditional, it's just medicine, just remove the traditional versus nontraditional. Okay, so last question in this one because everything has been said, what is your take I guess what is your take on this integration of anti-racism training or just this conversation now, and have you noticed any patterns of co-opting in this space as this is kind of being talked about more in the space of medicine.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So I just, I just actually posted something on Instagram about this very topic and I'm pulling the exact quote right now. This is from the Pew Research Center.

TYRA PARRISH: Okay.

LASHYRA NOLEN: And they reported that support for the Black Lives Matter movement has decreased by 16% since the murders of George Floyd, Brianna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery. So what that tells us is that that peak that we saw in 2020 like after their tragic murders, there was all of this interest there was all this excitement there was the Black Lives Matters on streets, and on jerseys, and on lanyards, mission statements, and task forces and all of that.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: But where is that energy now, and what did it truly amount to? If now the the pendulum has swung the other way, and I think that we're seeing that with all types of policies that are happening across the country like the political landscape at the local state and federal level right now is like wildly transphobic, racist.

TYRA PARRISH: Yep.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Like xenophobic. It's just horrible, and I think that in reality like conversations about anti-racism training and things like that, I think that they're just conversations at the end of the day. We can all have a conversation but where is the action at? And where is the sustained commitment? Like and what are you doing with your dollars and your funds? Like don't just give me, you know a position for DEI at your institution but use that money to invest in in local black businesses in your community or to actually create like a 10-year plan that is measurable and how you're going to improve the conditions of who's around you and before you even started this work did you admit to the fact that you were complicit? Did you outline the way specifically that you have been complicit? Have you done the internal work the investigative research, not just saying like you know we're sorry that we've done some racist stuff in the past.

TYRA PARRISH: Right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Like a real investigative study to how you have harmed in the past and in the present the communities that you're claiming that you're going to be anti-racist toward. I feel like that is really like where the Truth and Reconciliation and like all of that comes in, and I think that a lot of these institutions are just checking the box because it's no longer sexy to be racist. Openly at least right like?

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, right, right.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Anti-racist.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah So, so yeah I think that we have to be careful because I think that this movement absolutely is being co-opted, and I think that we have to start holding and continue holding institutions accountable with their actions because we've seen the data we heard the data 16% decrease that tells us that um that really things have not changed, we're going backwards, and that's after a public lynching during a pandemic.

TYRA PARRISH: Right, yeah. And I think that that it's just personally with the with the co-opting, like that is something where it's, it's just like maybe it's- maybe it's me but I also find it like a lot- very disrespectful of the fact of like you think that our community will just go for the: "oh look! Like here are all the bells and whistles that you want." Like I think they they made like instead of stop killing us they just painted Black Lives Matter on the street. I was like you just wasted more money, like like that makes no sense. And it's just like I feel like just we're beyond the oh we're gonna do this and all sorts of type of stuff it's like, okay but where's the act- like you said action and sustainable like 10 year plan of how you're going to correct your behavior and then just saying like y'all use your words to like pacify us, use the words to call yourself out like you said where it's like do an investigative like work like seriously and then out yourself and then say okay this is what we were complicit in and here's how we're going to correct that. And I think a lot of people don't do that and that's why I come to the office like performative, like y'all don't mean it you know. And then the data you just shared is like demonstrates that to the full extent so.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Exactly. And this is, is reparations. Like-

TYRA PARRISH: Literally.

LASHYRA NOLEN: We're talking about the process of like reparations and restitution and that's kind of like what I'm excited about like and why I decided to get this public policy degree, is because I'm trying to better understand like what is the role of medical and public health institutions in reparations. Like economic development for communities and like thinking about the levers that we have to actually promote reparations, and I think like that's where this conversation has to go. Like reparations cannot be a scary word anymore, but it's just simply like what is due, and I think that there can be no other alternative besides that if we're truly talking about anti-racism at these institutions.

TYRA PARRISH: Right. Okay, so sadly this conversation is coming to a close I don't want it to end but we, whatever. So thank you for being so open and honest with me and the folks who are listening, because this is just what needs to be said and I think you gave a lot of like seeds for thought and hopefully folks will go on and read those books that you shared like the Color of Law I believe it was?

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah. And hopefully they'll go on and read that and water you know water their seeds-

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yes, yes.

TYRA PARRISH: Along the way. that's what we're praying for.

LASHYRA NOLEN: While you on the train make sure you keep one eye open though so you can see you know-

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah, be aware, you know. Keep that third eye open. And so I want to end with just one or yeah, I guess like one question on self-care and also any closing thoughts or advice that you have for just folks who are thinking of like, hey like I really want to change my field or hey like I'm just thinking on like how can I just contribute or help my community. Okay. So the question I'm going to ask is, oh these are both good, maybe I'll just ask both. What are some daily or weekly self-care routines or habits that you've incorporated into your life? So you did share that you do read are there any other just things you do.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, I think that like before starting school like graduate school or before starting like a new job or whatever the case is like just like taking a survey of the things that you do that bring you joy and making sure that you maintain those things in your life. And I think that like that's what I've tried my best to do like for me I loved running so much, because LMU was like right by the beach it was just the best like that's kind of how I got into long distance running, but now it's just generally important for me to stay active. Like I think that like taking care of like my temple is critical and I actually just entered this this competition to become an amateur boxer, which is wild. Yes it's called Haymakers for Hope and I'm raising $10,000 to contribute to cancer research, and specifically to donate to these two organizations that support black women and low-income women with any of the costs that come up during their breast cancer treatment.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So that's a quick aside, but and I'll send you the link to that so you can like share-

TYRA PARRISH: Yes.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, y'all so like make sure you donate if you're able or share. But yeah I think that for the most part I just do like what brings me joy. Like I've been able to travel while I've been in medical school. Traveling is important to me, speaking to my family weekly, making sure I'm in touch with my mom and know what she's going through. I need to get back on this, like I used to be, but like journaling weekly as well and also something I've given grace to myself in is like even if I don't Journal like in a notebook like I normally do, voice memos even like notes on my phone just kind of like checking in and seeing how I'm feeling. So, yeah I think that those are some of the things that have kept me grounded but I would say what's, what's most critical is just remembering and knowing what brings you joy and not letting go of that even when you're very busy, because you have to carve out time for those things or else whatever you're doing can become all consuming and then you'll definitely start to feel burnt out.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah. I'm gonna start journaling I didn't even, I used to journal too like a lot and I actually found an old journal where I wrote all my goals and it was very trippy to see like, oh I- you know it's like rewarding oh yeah wait I did say that and it's- but anyways but when you were talking about that I was thinking I was like I need to also get back on that, because there there's something to the spirit.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Yeah, it's so rewarding, yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: Literally, yeah.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Go back and like see the personal growth. It's just like oh my god, like especially on those hard days, yeah.

TYRA PARRISH: Man, yeah. I totally agree. Okay. Last question is, can you share any specific resources such as books podcasts or wellness practices that have been instrumental in regards to supporting yourself. You did share that like you are active but are there like any other books that you're like y'all need to plug yourselves in, podcasts, I'll also tune in to your podcast because I'm- I'm about to do that.

LASHYRA NOLEN: Absolutely. I think you'll like it a lot.

TYRA PARRISH: Okay, cool.

LASHYRA NOLEN: So I would say, podcast y'all gotta check out the podcast that I'm a co-host for. It's like a lot of hosts of the of the podcast, we have like a big team. But it's called the Clinical Problem Solvers Antiracism in Medicine podcast. We've had over 20 episodes and we've interviewed folks like Ed Yong, who wrote a lot about the pandemic. We've also interviewed Dorothy Roberts, who's like an incredible author, lawyer, scholar around anti-racism in medicine, just like really dope people. So check that out and we're like all about linking all of the different things to anti-racism whether it's immigration health or indigenous health. So it's a really good podcast and I'm proud to be a part of it. As far as books go, I would say the books that have been like oh my god, like this is that one ,it has changed in the best ways, I would say The Sum of Us by Heather McGhee is incredible and it's all about how like we have to stop using the zero sum game mentality and when I say us I mean American society, specifically white American Society. And it's about how like you know it led- this idea of like the this currency of whiteness has led to a depletion of resources for everybody, so it's very brilliant she gives great examples from health care to education and housing. Then I would say Caste by Isabelle Wilkerson and also Warmth of Other Suns by Isabelle Wilkerson. She's just a phenomenal historian and I think that both of those books have been critical for me, and then I would say the most recent one that I've read that has been like oh my god, I love this is Viral Justice by Ruha Benjamin, who's a sociologist at Princeton, an author and she's just super dope and she also has like Race After Technology and other great books too, but Viral Justice is one of those books that in in light of all the horribleness in the world, it just reminded me that like we are still plotting seeds of goodness, each and every one of us. And like we have to continue that chain of goodness despite all the negativity that's around us. And it could be difficult to push against that and it just kind of made me feel inspired and hopeful, so I would say, I would say kind of like that's- that's the collection that I think has really given me a lot to, to kind of have to jump off from and to feel hopeful in doing this work that is often very difficult and heavy.

TYRA PARRISH: Yeah I- it is very difficult and it is very heavy but I think that just, it sounds like the books that you offered are just books to where you can kind of ground your spirit and or learn new things that could help you kind of figure out where your passion is. So yeah I want to thank you so much for being here I want to I just want to again thank you for all the just nuggets and seeds you shared, and yeah, so I just want to tell my listeners just to- oh man I had a brain fart a real bad one. I'm gonna just start over pretend like I didn't say that. oh man my brain just gave out on me. So yeah Lash I just want to thank you again for coming to our podcast, and I want to thank all the listeners for tuning in and yeah, see y'all later. Bye. Okay.